Need opinion on life issues. I feel like I'm wasting my life

[PressOn]

Hi Guys !

I'm a male in his mid twenties in what should be the most fun / fruitful time of his life. I'm fortunate to have a great job, my own apartment, and a decent car. I'm grateful for these things, but I've also suffered from sexual side effects (cannot/ has not achived orgasm since paxil, low libido, no feeling in genitials) which has casued me great depression for the past 3 months.

When I was placed on Paxil, I was losing my mind from OCD. I could not function and went to the doctor who put me on 20mg paxil. Immediately, I noticed diminished pleasure and the inability to climax. I would get the initial feelings, then a drop in pleasure. It feels no more pleasureable than sitting down on a couch after along day).

Having not masturbated much or had sex at the point, the side effects were worth the benefits. I didnt "miss" anything sexually and i had mental function to live my life. Using common sense, I thought these effects would go away. After being on them for 4 years, i finally tapered off and quit 02/08. the side effects have gotten maybe 10% better if that.

I have OCD. if there is a 1% chance of something happnening, it means 100% chance in my mind. I suddenly get the fear that alcohol and caffeine can make recovery worst, even when enjoyed in moderation. I decided to quit. It seems very OCDish to do such a thing so on days I feel confident I know its crazy to avoid these things but on days I'm depressed / worried, I get instense anxiety and worry everytime I consume either.

Here is what floors me in deep depresson:
I have very little friends and have yet to experience a real relationship. After suffering all this worry and anxiety for a good part of my life, I dont even have the confidence or ability to build relationships.

I see my friends in relationships and although things might not be perfect for them, it kills me to know that I can't even go home and achieve an orgasm and that I have not gotten one in years and may never achieve what i felt prior to Paxil. It kills me to know that although others suffer problems as well, my problems with ocd / pssd aren't just joking matters either and they're apart of the "extreme". its serious to the point where my work / social life are effected. I even think of sucide on some days for hours.

Now on top of that I'm giving up the social drinking scene due to this fear I have. Sometimes I would even go home early after drinking just to prove to myself that I can still achieve an erection....very ocd behavior.

Instead of alcohol, i would exercise. Get a good run / workout in prior to going out. Went out to a friends for thanksgiving last night and had a good time despite not drinking. thats a definte plus and I want to eventually learn to achieve this skill. Meet people and build relationships without using drinking as crutch.

I just dont know where to turn: I'm very depressed about this whole PSSD thing and no one, not even doctors can relate. Everyone i know is in a relationship even the guys that are quiet / shy as me because at the end of the day, they didnt suffer what I suffered. I dont want to wake up one day at 35 and realized I wasted my life in worry and anxiety....and still single....

I feel deeply depressed for not stoping these meds the second I got the side effects. It just kills me to know that I could've made a difference, but I know I must accept.....I just don't have the mental willpower. It feels like I'm fighting an uphill battle and I'm losing day by day. As a man I seriously almost cry just thinking how my life will be 10 years from now.

[Pat Shields]

Originally Posted by PressOn

I have very little friends and have yet to experience a real relationship.

And what makes you think that everybody else's relationships are real? The divorce rate in this country is so high partly because the relationships are often not "real" to begin with; each party has his or her imagination. (Men marry thinking the woman will never change; women marry thinking the man will change.)

A boyfriend of mine from 10th grade hooked up with me via Classmates.com recently. We are 57 years old; he just got married for the first and only time 2 years ago. He wanted to experience a "real" relationship, and he was very cautious, not promiscuous, looking and analyzing, making sure that before he married her it was real.

ADs cause problems, but the problems can be overcome with time and diligence. Suicide is not the solution. I mean, it will make the problems go away, but it will make you go away too, and then you will NEVER get the chance to have that real relationship. When you have those feelings realize that they are lies your emotions are telling you. Another lie is that YOU DO NOT KNOW how your life will be 10 years from now. You don't.

Stay in touch here throughout your process. We can't fix you, but we can help you, or at least let you know that you are not the only one who has gone through similar situations as yours.

[kathleen2]

There are many on this board who've been devastated by sexual side effects.

Where to start? First, if you've been thru CBT for OCD (that's a lot o' initials!), I'm sure you know that worrying about sexual dysfunction is enough to cause sexual dysfunction. We can psyche ourselves out. So that even tho the problems initiated from SSRI use, the OCD cognition is likely compounding them. If you can get a handle on the OCD, the sexual side effects may diminish.

Secondly: alcohol inhibiting male performance is *pretty universal.* If your buddies tell you otherwise...take it with a grain of salt. And while I don't want you to isolate yourself, giving up drinking isn't a bad thing. Neither is giving up caffeine. You just need to make sure you're still hanging out with people. Maybe pursuing other interests would be a venue to new friends who could become more than friends: taking a night class, volunteering somewhere, etc.

I know depression can totally distort things and make it seem like if they're bad now, they'll be bad forever. But it's not so. You can work on the OCD; you can build social skills; and with that, the sexual s/x will likely get better.

Hang in there!

And hooray for the job and the apartment--there are people with OCD who are agoraphobic & never achieve all you that you already have.

[Sonika]

One day at the time! Life is hard no matter what, this is what you are facing right now, tomorrow you will have other challenges. We all do.

I am not making less of your problem at all, but we can only live, hope and move on.

[PressOn]

Thanks for the kind words. It kinda helps just to talk it out, just to be heard, even though the situation unfortunately stays the same, reading this stuff does give me a little boost to realize that my emotions are not my thoughts

I can see many benefits of quitting alcohol (i do tend to act say dumb things when drunk) but as far as social drinking is concerned, that would depend on my level of confidence on that particular day. Alcohol gives me a good buzz when I'm out and i can enjoy it in moderation (2-3drinks), nor do i have a "problem".....its just this whole fear after reading about how some guy who takes a cocktail of perscritpion mental health drugs suddently became impotent overnight that it could happen to me from alcohol

whats worst is that me and my friends are planning a trip to europe, with Amsterdam as one of the locations (something that should be very fun). I've decided not to drink or smoke due to this fear (again googling majuriana and impotence) but now I fear that even being in the coffeeshop where I will smell second hand smoke Majuriana will cause pernament impotence (wow typing that out made me realize how irrational it is).

i google and read that MJ can cause pernament damage in the erection area becuase it replaces certain neurotransmitters (i think it was literally one source while most other sources gave conflicting results. I did not find anything that medically connected MJ to ED, but the personal experiences were mixed.) and I'm throw in to this whole anxiety again and also how some people had issues with erections and quit MJ but it took them weeks to recover. this all scares me to the point where I'm considering just not being in the coffeeshop as they're smoking and just do my own thing for a little while....which is really really stupid........its a vacation and i'm only going to be young once.

[kathleen2]

Worrying about future impotence definitely falls under the umbrella of health anxiety. Sounds like there's some obsessive rumination in the mix, too. Use the techniques you used in dealing with OCD to address this?

Realistic perspective: extreme drunkenness causes most men not to be able to achieve an erection. Effect fades when the alcohol does; no permanent damage. Marijuana's less likely to cause ED, but even if it did, it too would be only while under the influence. Any dire consequence can be found by googling; don't buy it. Quote: "after reading about how some guy who takes a cocktail of perscritpion mental health drugs suddently became impotent overnight that it could happen to me from alcohol." Honest, heart-felt advice: don't give in to the information-seeking that is itself a symptom of health anxiety.

Other hand: I'm not anti-marijuana, but it does tend to trigger anxiety in those already prone. So nothing wrong wth skipping it.

Summary: surest way to cause sexual dysfunction is by being anxious about sexual dysfunction.

CBT tip: Worry doesn't prepare you for anything. Whenever this trip is--Xmas break? Spring break? Summer--you're messing up your present reality by worrying about future possibilties.

[kathleen2]

ps.--I say all that with love, btw, and as a champion obsessive ruminator and trouble-borrower.

[PressOn]

Originally Posted by kathleen2

ps.--I say all that with love, btw, and as a champion obsessive ruminator and trouble-borrower.

Vacation is after New Years. I usually have epsidoes of OCD that can last months to years. Everytime I'm on to a new one, I realize how absurb the old one was.

No dont worry about it i'm not offended . I know it seems like I'm seeking assurance for my OCD, but sometimes I need a non ocd opinion to validate if my worrys are rational or not.

This isnt something that I can use my ocd techniques on......i mean ocd techniques involve facing my fears and say "so waht"

I don't find it much helpful to say "ok i go to europe, get drunk, dance, smoke, have a great time and come back to the states with pernament impotence....so what?"

i mean i'm not tryin to discredit your advice, its a good advice, but how someone would handle this kind of worry is beyond me

[Cici]

How about facing your fears and saying -

1. What might happen?
I go to Europe, get drunk, dance, smoke, have a great time and come back to the states with permanent impotence....

2. What will probably happen?
I go to Europe, get drunk, dance, smoke, have a great time and come back to the states having had a fantastic time ....

3. And when you come home - what did happen?
I'll bet you're not permanently impotent, and you've had a great time.

Write it down - do this often enough, and you'll agree with Kathleen - Worry doesn't prepare you for anything.

PS I'm also a champion trouble-borrower.

[kathleen2]

I do see what you're saying.

Have you read Grayson's Freedom from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? He talks about uncertainty being at the core of OCD, GAD, health anxiety. And about the very thing you're saying: you can decatastrophize and probabilty-estimate till the cows come home, but the "what if" remains, b/c the remote possibility remains. I mean, you *could* go to Amsterdam, inhale pot smoke, and trigger a rare and improbable impotence. I don't think you will, but you could, b/c anything's possible, so the anxious/obsessive part of you worries about it, and seeks reassurance---

but the logic and the reassurance only help for a little bit, b/c your brain still knows there's a possibility: uncertainty remains.

Grayson argues that we can never get on top of our anxiety till we face the uncertainty. So: bear with me: if you can:

What if you went to Amsterdam, inhaled smoke, and became impotent? Maybe it would go away. Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe you'd take viagra. Millions of men do. And what if the Viagra didn't help? Maybe you'd be impotent forever. What then? Maybe you'd find a girlfriend who didn't care. Maybe you wouldn't, and be single forever. And what then? Either you'd deal with it, or you wouldn't. Either you'd learn to live a meaningful life without it, or you wouldn't. You see? You have to face it, think it through, and come to a place where you really & truly say: f*ck it, it may happen, and if it happens I'll either deal with it or not, but all this obsessive rumination is doing is scr*wing me out of my life and (O irony) making what I fear (impotence) way more likely (because pot smoke may stand a one in a million chance of causing total irreversible impotence, but worrying about impotence is way more likely to cause it).

To step back a minute: inside all of us with OCD/anxiety/obsessive tendencies/GAD/health anxiety is a level-headed person who knows that we're afraid of...what we fear. That we're afraid of it b/c we're afraid of it, so to speak. Which is to say: there are way worse things that are way more likely, but we're not afraid of them, so we don't give them a thought. People who fear heart attacks obsess on heart attacks. You're scared of impotence so you obsess on impotence. We're all more likely to get hit by a car, but unless we have a getting-hit-by-a-car phobia, we don't think about it. I could reassure and say: your manhood isn't based on an erection; there are men who go their lives without one--b/c of paralysis, etc.--and are worthwhile, worthy, lovely, and even happy (married!) men. Or: female orgasm has very little to do with male erection (true: no offense). Or: and this is true: I think every man I've ever slept with has smoked pot, and was fine. Or: every woman on this board could probably tell you about that...unfortunate thing... happening to a guy, and you know what? If we cared about the guy, it really didn't matter. We understand that a sh*tty day at work or money worries or misbehaving kids or having the mother in law visit can do that. But none of this logic would cut it, b/c it's your fear, and the uncertainty remains. And nothing can erase it, suckily--b/c uncertainty is the core of existence--so it has to be faced, and accepted.

I'm cutting and pasting a post of mine to JenniJenni from the anxiety forum; forgive if it's redundant. Her fear is that her derealization & trippy thoughts will last forever. I myself have had this fear, and a serious cognitive phobia/what-if-I-go-crazy fear, which I've had to deal with via the Grayson methods, and accept: yep, could happen. Totally unlikely, but could, so I'm going to live my life now & not fall into the trap of thinking that worrying about it obsessively will prevent it.


"JenniJenni--

So sorry for this rough patch. The trouble with those of us who obsess is that we obsess about the obsessing. And we try to obsess our way out of the obsession. You know? But it doesn't work.

So many of us here have dealt with derealization. One CBT technique is/are coping statements--mantras to write down, keep with you, say out loud. One common one is "Feelings are not facts," which gets to what Drew was saying.
It may feel like b.s. at first; it takes practice, but eventually the brain slips into new grooves, and new cognitive habits replace old ones.

Ultimately anxiety is about uncertainty. Obsessive rumination arises as we try to think our way out of uncertainty. The trouble: this isn't possible, because some uncertainty always remains.

I remember expressing the (very common) fear to my CBT therapist: What if my derealization lasts forever? A crappy therapist would say: oh, it won't, that's so unlikely--but the anxious mind wouldn't really buy it, b/c uncertainty--the remotest possibilty--remains; give the anxious mind a billion-to-one odds and we're sure we're the billion, b/c we FEEL like it--and the what-ifing continues deep-down.

So: she (therapist) said, "Well, it's not likely, but I suppose it's possible. What if it happened?" and I felt my heart sink--I wanted certainty! reassurance!

I said: "I couldn't take it, I'd kill myself." And realized that if I killed myself, I wouldn't have to deal with it (relief!), but also wouldn't get to...do anything else.

So then the thought: well, it would suck, but I suppose I could just try and live a life in that state.

And then the thought: well, if I may someday slip into a rare permanent derealized state, do I really want to spend my time now worrying about it?

Because here's the thing that our anxious, obsessive, ruminative minds don't tell us: WORRY ISN'T PREVENTATIVE. It doesn't prepare us for anything. All vigilance does is ruin the present.

If there's a chance that our trippy existential thoughts are right and we're all just a figment of somebody's imagination, I'm going to be a figment who watches a lot of 30 Rock episodes, has great sex, and eats a lot of dark chocolate. I don't mean this at all facetiously. Life is uncertain and unpredictable, and there are people among us living every day with their worst nightmares come true (the loss of a child, crippling illness), and I'm going to milk life for all it's worth.

(Another CBT techinque: get angry at the anxiety. Write it an I'm-mad-as-hell-and-I'm-not-going-to-take-it-anymore letter, a you're-the-****tiest-boyfriend/girlfriend-in-the-history-of-time, the-lousiest-boss-on-the-planet letter. Again, even if you're too scared at the moment to be mad, write it and read it over & over; let it wear new pathways).

(And here's the nature of anxiety: getting to this point is what makes the derealization go away. If you don't feed it, it dissipates. It has no power).

I hope this helps.

Please check back in & tell us how you're doing?"

[kathleen2]

(Cici: you said what I said way more efficiently! )

[PressOn]

Cici and Kathleen,

I would just like to thank you two for providing CBT techqniues. My therapist and I have tried it but its been such a long time that your refreshers definately helped. I had a pretty good time thursday, found out about the trip and felt like crap until I came to PP and read your posts. I'm not saying its going to be easy but this facing your fear thing works. On a scale of 1 - 10 in happiness i'd say i was at a 3-4 today. an improvement over the 1-2 when I found out about the trip.

I've decided to go and have as much fun as possible. I guess everything happens for a reason. I use to drink and not think about it and then this whole ocd thing flared up and I had to convince myself to not dirnk at all. OCD is ALL or NOTHING. theres never an inbetween and I found myself not being able to function until I was able to conclude that "yes i never touch alcohol again." But in the end, this experience has taugh me to enjoy life, but alcohol and caffeine will never run my life. To that I will keep it to a 2-3 drink bi-weekly.

I'm realizing how stupid these thoughts are (not going to be easy but accepting the fears is all I can do).

theres way more health stuff I fear in which i will use these CBT techniques to try and accept. I'm going to write them down in great detail and read them to myself.


my worst fear right now? waking up in 10 years in my exact situation. I'v been in a deep depression from age 18. I'm currently 25.... I'd rather take the risk and enjoy life.

[Cici]

"I'm currently 25.... I'd rather take the risk and enjoy life."

You've got a lot of life left to enjoy - press on and enjoy it!!!

[flapbreaker]

PressOn,

First off it would be helpful to you if you changed your idea of what a relationship is or entails. Being a guy myself I can tell you that sex is more important to us than it is to the majority of women. If you feel that you will not be able to find a girl to have a relationship with because of impotence than you are wrong. It's true that intimacy is important but it's not the MOST important thing. An orgasm is 90% mental and probably 10% physical. If you can find a way to relax about the whole issue I guarantee you will see improvement. Don't make solving your impotence a prerequisite to finding a mate. Live life, meet people, focus on people that are easy to talk to. Usually those friendships last. Lots of women would rather have a loving caring mate than some macho sex machine of a man. Hang in there and try to stay positive.

Spencer.