Insomia, is it a w/d symptom?

I have been fighting with this huge wave of w/d for 16 days. Per doc's suggestion, slightly updosed to 18mg Effexor, only occasionally take one 0.5mg Ativan during the day time when the symptoms are too bad. Today is my first day updosed the Clonazepam from 0.25mg to 0.5mg. I only slept for 30 minutes and suddenly woke up and I can't fall into sleep again! I took a Z drug (Zopiclone) but I am now too nervous to calm down!

What happend to me? I am so scared!

[texgirl]

Baal! Sweetie! Why do you think we've been advising you not to take benzos (of which Z drugs are a close cousin)? This is the rebound effect we've been telling you about!

Originally Posted by texgirl

Baal! Sweetie! Why do you think we've been advising you not to take benzos (of which Z drugs are a close cousin)? This is the rebound effect we've been telling you about!

Hi texgirl,

I only slept for 4 hours with bad quality last night. To be honest, to temporarily (say, 2 weeks) updose my long-use Clonazepam from 0.25mg to 0.5mg, and take 0.5mg Ativan twice per day (temporarily as well for 2 weeks per doc prescription) as required is NOT my decision, it was what the chief psychiatrist told me on July 29th.

I tried my best to only take one 0.5mg Ativan per day since then. Yesterday I didn't take it. And I didn't find I am happy after the evening running so is it the reason? So I guess this is the "rebound effect" you are talking about? I have been holding on 0.25mg Clonazepam for 1+ years per doc's suggestion. If updosing Clonazepam can give me a relief of the Effexor w/d, I will do it because I am confident I can wean off the Benzo later. However, what happened to me? You know I am so confused because doc's suggestion is to use the Benzo for a short term to cope with the Effexor w/d. However almost everyone here in this forum against taking benzos. I am struggling with the terrible w/d everyday for 2+ weeks and there is no sign it is geeting better!!!

I am so lost here. I know on the Effexor manual it says "all the withdrawal symptoms are self-limited" but after 17 days I slightly updosed the Effexor to 18mg I haven't find the hope!!!

texgirl I really appreciate your advice and I tend to believe you are right. But I bet you understand the pain I am suffering now. I am not stubborn at all! I am just a coward and I am so scared and so anxious about the w/d!

My fundamental question is: what should I do?????!!!!! To stop taking the Ativan and try to be a die hard to fight with the w/d? How about the Clonazepam? Shall I updose or not? How to cope with the insomia? I wish it is just an occasional one.

Oh my GOD! Rescue me!

[slappyintheface]

Yes, withdrawal can cause insomnia, but like Texgirl said, it would be hard to tell what is causing what with so many different meds in your system. You have got to stop adding new things and give yourself time to heal.

Originally Posted by slappyintheface

Yes, withdrawal can cause insomnia, but like Texgirl said, it would be hard to tell what is causing what with so many different meds in your system. You have got to stop adding new things and give yourself time to heal.

I got slammed by the w/d on Jul 26th. But last night was the first one I have the insomnia. So how to explain it? The w/d is getting worse instead of getting better as time goes by? Or, it is the rebound reaction because I didn't take 0.5mg Ativan during the day time just one day?

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by baal

I got slammed by the w/d on Jul 26th. But last night was the first one I have the insomnia. So how to explain it? The w/d is getting worse instead of getting better as time goes by? Or, it is the rebound reaction because I didn't take 0.5mg Ativan during the day time just one day?

Well, insomnia is a side effect of tolerance to benzos. But if you had insomnia for only one night, then there may be nothing to be concerned about. Everybody has a bad night once in a while, meds or no meds. To expect never to have sleeplessness, especially while weaning or adding psych meds, is not realistic.

Originally Posted by baal

To be honest, to temporarily (say, 2 weeks) updose my long-use Clonazepam from 0.25mg to 0.5mg, and take 0.5mg Ativan twice per day (temporarily as well for 2 weeks per doc prescription) as required is NOT my decision, it was what the chief psychiatrist told me on July 29th.

Your psychiatrist may have recommended that you updose the clonazepam and add Ativan, but following that advice or not is your decision. It's up to you to educate yourself and make your decisions as wisely as you can with the information you gather. If people were getting honest or helpful advice from their doctors about medications, there would be no reason for this website.

texgirl, no offense. So you don't trust the docs at all? And based on what I saw from this forum, people are saying docs are totally useless?

[mapleleafgirl25]

it could be either or or both...i had insommnia for months in w/d the last time..and the thing is..it gets worse before it gets better....The doctors do not know anything about these drugs except prescribing them..i had to give my long time doctor the doses to get my pills compounded..he didnt even know they still did that..ect...

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by baal

texgirl, no offense. So you don't trust the docs at all? And based on what I saw from this forum, people are saying docs are totally useless?

Baal, forgive me, I can't remember what country you're in. In the US (and most other places, from what I've read here), psychiatrists have only one mode of treatment, which is medication. So if you go in with any kind of problem that can be deemed mental or emotional, they're going to give you a pill. If that pill causes a problem, they think it means you either need a different pill or an another pill or two in addition to the first one. The fact that the pills themselves cause problems is rarely addressed and the side effects are almost always blamed on the patient. There are a few docs who actually listen to patients and prescribe judiciously, but the experience of most people on this forum is that they are few and far between.

Do I trust pdocs? On an individual basis, maybe. (I found a very kind one 4 years ago who recognized that the benzos my first pdoc had prescribed me were making me sick and crazy, and helped me taper off. I suffered for a long time from the damage the first pdoc did, not only from the meds she prescribed but from her labeling me, condescending to me, and telling me I'd have to be medicated "for life.") As a group, no, I don't trust them. If you suffer from anxiety or depression and don't want to be on meds, find a counselor, not an MD.

Dear texgirl, thank you. I immigrated to Canada from China 3 years ago. My panic disorder and GAD occured in 2007, when I was in China. In fact, the probelm you described is quite common in China as well. I understand that back to the darkest days I was shocked by the problems first time in my life I was scared so whatever the doc said and whatever med they prescribed me I will take it! And let them define me, lable me. I believe they are the professionals and I should trust them. They are the ones to heal me and rescue me.

After 4 years good time and bad time on Effexor and Benzos, what happened to me and what I learnt from this forum and others (like the benzowithdrawal.com) shaked my belief. Now I question my first pdoc's expertise. She prescribed me Effexor for 150mg, and asked me to cut to 75mg only after 6 months. She told me take the Effexor very night, instead of the morning! She blamed me for too sensitive and overconcerned about taking med and tapering med. She said I am too fragile because almost all her patient can easily stop the Effexor at 37.5mg!

Now I don't even bother to argue with her, considering the time differnece. LOL. She is in China and I am in Toronto. When I told her I saw so many negative comments about Effexor and the "wean-off" approach totally different against her "experience", you know what she said? She said, you know, there are probably millions of ppl all over this world taking Effexor and I believe they don't have problems when come off. And she believe the majority, those who successfully come off Effexor will not come back and spend time on the forum to "educate" others and share experience. So her point is, people on forum always share and propogate negative ideas and suggestions, because they have trouble with Effexor or, have trouble to come off Effexor. But this is the minority becasue the majority will not waste their time on the forum when they are healed. Then her suggestion is: avoid the Internet, listen to the docs.

I used to trust my docs' (no matter the doc in China or the doc now in Toronto) expertise so much. But now I am really hesitating. Do you understand my pain? If it was 4 years ago I am suffering from this w/d hell and my doc told me to temporarily take the benzos, I will go ahead right away. But now whom should I trust? My doc (here in Canada) told me to updose Clonazepam to 0.5mg while almost all the people here at this website against. Now you know why I am so struggling!

I will see my doc tomorrow PM. I don't know what he will say.

[warbird]

Baal-

I understand where you're coming from. I think there's truth to both sides of the argument. I think a lot of folks do get on these meds and are able to quit them without going thru the horror that so many on forums report. I have a buddy who was on Lexipro for "anger". He quit it cold turkey w/out any issues. I agree that there are MILLIONS of people who take these drugs and we only see a relatively small percentage of people on forums like this struggling to get off them or complaining about the drugs. The other interesting note is; many people are quick to point out the meds HELPED them when they first got on them. It was only when the meds stopped working or they tried to get off the meds that all hell broke loose.

I think it's clear to all of us that some people on these forms do have some serious mental health challenges and had them before meds too. Now that they are off, they tell everyone they were "damaged" by the drug/drugs. Clearly, we have to filter anything we read on a public forum.

Back to your question, in two years of reading forums like this, your only option to get off is to wean very slowly. The benzo is also something you need to try and get off. Most folks wean off the Benzo first. Then they wean off the a/d.

What were you hospitalized for?

warbird,

For Panic Disorder and GAD.

My fundamental question is how to ride out this w/d wave, with so many fears, symptoms, uncertaincies.

[Usha]

Originally Posted by baal

My fundamental question is how to ride out this w/d wave, with so many fears, symptoms, uncertaincies.

Think that you have been forced to participate in the Survivor show and they have abandoned you somewhere in a god forsaken place- AND without your permission! However, they have given you internet access !! Now, the only way is to really survive. They have not told you when the show will end. You will be back home. BUT there is an end to it.The prize money that you will take home is your near old self prior to taking these dreadful drugs.

This is really how I'm dealing with the w/d phase. Don't try to be adventurous during this phase. Garner all the support systems you can get your hands on- this is truly a one of a life time experience.

I'm really sorry you are going thru' so much- but you are not alone- and you will get out of it too, if you are patient- good luck.