Night jolts anyone? (different from brain zaps)

[gervish]

[font="Verdana"][font="Verdana"]Hi good people,

Been awhile since my last post. Hope everybody is doing well and getting healthy.

Question: Does any one else have the experience of an intense adrenaline surge in their chest and head just as they're falling asleep at night? I've had this on and off now for about 7-8 years and it seems to be getting worse. It's pretty horrible and terrifying. I've grown so used to it that when talking to a friend the other day, I nonchalantly told him that I "get this thing" where I think I'm dying anywhere from 2-20 times a night, and didn't even realize just how insane it sounded until I heard his reaction, which was, "are you effing kidding me?"

It's hard to tell what the cause is. I'm a slim, 30 years-young man who exercises and do not think it's sleep apnea as people often suggest. The weird thing is that I don't really associate this experience with panic-anxiety attacks or even my struggles with SSRIs (I've been on Paxil and Lexpro) because I get them regardless of whether I'm taking 10mgs of Lexapro (which, despite of all of its bad SSRI qualities, eliminates my panic attacks) or none at all. Also, I started getting the night jolts BEFORE I ever took any drugs.

This is one reason that I know it's not the "brain zaps" that so many people talk about when they withdraw from SSRIs. I've had those, too, and they're no walk in the park either, but they're completely different animals. For me the "brain zaps" are more isolated in the head and more blunt (but by no means mild). Kind of like you just got hit in the head with a 2x4. (Thanks GSK!) Also, they happen at random times of day and are clearly brought on by the sudden shift in brain chemistry that results from either missing a dose or attempting a wean-off. (as you can probably guess, I've tried and failed at that wacky activity once or twice... -good times.) The "night jolts" only happen when I'm drifting into REM sleep, and feel much more like a visit from the grim reaper than the brain zaps do.

I've read elsewhere about people having similar issues, but they tend to sound much less severe than mine. The worst ones I have feel almost like a seizure or mini-stroke. This concerns me for obvious reasons. I would go to a neurologist, sleep specialist, etc., but alas I have basically no health insurance. (C'mon Obama!)

Sorry for going into such tedious detail, but I wanted to know if anyone out there has had a similar experience. I don't want to belittle other people's SSRI horrors, but I can say without hesitation that that these "night jolts" are either as bad as or worse than any panic attack, brain zap, or suicidal depression hole I've ever been in. The reason: they don't let up. It's pretty much a nightly occurrence and it's been almost a decade now since I've had a normal night sleep (that wasn't "pharmacologically assisted"). It's interesting to note that the one thing that actually does nip them in the bud is Clonazepam, a Benzodiazepam. When I take .5mg, I can sleep like a baby, provided it's been a few months since I've weaned myself off of THAT evil drug. The downside there is the addictiveness, tolerance build-up, zombie-like behavior the next day, and the reported cognitive damage that can result from endless benzo-bibing. Ugh. Talk about a catch 22.

I take magnesium which sometimes helps, sometimes doesn't. Any ideas? Even if you just want to share your story, it'd be nice to know I'm not alone.

Thanks for reading,
Gerald

"Nobody told me there'd be days like these. Strange days indeed."
-John Lennon

[guitar77]

I don't know if I experienced the exact same thing, but after my really bad adverse reaction to Zoloft (2 nights in the ER, followed by another 6 visits daily); I started having this thing where as soon as I'd starting drifting off to sleep, it felt like my head was being shocked and my heart at the same time. I'd full on go into an adrenalin rush and my heart would be racing, I'd be wide awake and breathing really fast. I went night after night like this, and could not sleep at all.

I finally started taking ambien, which helped me get to "sleep". But I had bad reactions to that and it cranked up my anxiety during the day.

Long story short, I'm currently of benzos and SSRIs, and am taking 25mg trazodone a night. I hope to be weaning of this soon. I haven't experienced the adrenalin dumps in probably four months or so.

[TryingtoGetWell]

I think this is fairly common, as are many sleep disturbances. They can linger longer than other w/d symptoms, though they certainly are less severe for me now than they were earlier after my too-fast taper.

I used to bolt awake (and I do mean bolt - often jolted up into a sitting position!) not only when falling asleep but frequently during sleep, and for me the biggest jolts at least now is actually when I wake up at relatively normal times or from dozing off during the day or evening (which I frequently do, even if just for about ten minutes).

I now get it only rarely when falling asleep, but ironically had it happen as I was falling asleep last night (never did get back to sleep - may be going through a wave of some sort, I don't know...).

It's still a problem for me but far less than it used to be. I've also seem many people post about things like this, so it seems to be part of w/d for many people. It certainly gets better over time, but it is one of the more persistent symptoms.

Some people attribute it to circadian rhythm cycles, but I find it happens whenever I fall asleep, day or night. And especially when I wake, and during the night. I also find it's often accompanied by pounding or racing heart, even when I've had a good dream. (I usually have nightmares, one after another, which must be from w/d also, but they don't necessarily trigger those "jolts" while I can get a jolt and palpitations and brief surge of other w/d symptoms even from a really nice, warm fuzzy dream!

I've been meaning to post about this, actually, but I think it's part of the biochemistry still being out of balance.

But please be assured that my case of these things were really extreme and even so it's still much, much better than it was earlier in w/d.

[Songbird]

This is talked about here a lot and I experienced it during severe w/d last year. I don't know the answer to it, but you are not alone.

[bunny88]

yesssssssss ive mever ever had a brain zap but i continuously got these in my adverse reaction to lexapro like one after the other when trying to go to sleep. i didnt think they were going to kill me and the doctor told me it was my increased anxiety. bit wierd you got it beofre meds>? i still have them only when im extremely awake and trying to sleep but.

[babs]

I get jolted awake many times a day in the early a.m., but I've never had this problem at bedtime. I get several hours of sleep and then start getting jolted awake every 20 minutes or so, each time feeling terrified until I remember what it is, and I can generally relax and go back to sleep until the next one hits. It's the weirdest thing .. it's been going on for over four years (since I quit Paxil) and the amount of sleep I'm able to get before they start has increased over the years, so I'm getting decent sleep. But before Paxil I was a 9-hour a night person and that is definitely a thing of the past. I can get about 6 before the jolts start waking me up. It's annoying because I can't enjoy the one perk of being unemployed, sleeping in. Also the feelings of fear that accompany the jolts are extremely unpleasant.

I also occasionally take Klonopin and find that I sleep much better when I do.

I have no idea why you would have had this problem before ever taking an SSRI, but I definitely feel your pain.

[gervish]

Thanks for sharing your stories, everybody. Just wanted to reiterate that I began experiencing this phenomenon ab 2 years BEFORE I ever swallowed a single pill of anything in my life that wasn't Advil or Tylenol, so I know it's not related to my withdrawl. The night jolt thing was in fact one of the primary reasons for me seeking treatment in the first place. Also it doesn't abate when I'm on a full SSRI dose, and I don't want to go any higher. I already feel like enough of a zombie as it is and would like to be totally drug-free some day.

Weirdly, when ever I put in a long day of "high-focus" work on music recording or rehearsing, (I'm a professional songwriter and composer), those are the nights when the jolts end up being the worst, without fail. Infuriatingly, I can hear all the day's melodies and rhythms playing simultaneously on top of each other (differently panned from ear to ear, just like stereo headphones) and cannot turn them off. Even if I successfully coax myself to sleep by breathing deeply or just waiting it out, then BAM!! another jolt hits and the melodies and rhythms are blaring once again, often more distorted and more jumbled (probably because I'm so tired and out of it at that point) which can be very nauseating and torturous in a way that I never thought possible. I made a joke a few years ago with my girlfriend that living with this thing night after night combined with the Paxil withdrawl hell is probably going to give me PTSD one day because she said it sounds like the kind of thing they do to prisoners of war. I realize now why she didn't laugh at me joking. It's sad because I think it's making me apathetic about life and scared of music "getting in" when I'm not prepared to listen to it (e.g. in restaurants, stores, etc.) The hardest aspect of this is that I love music so much but this condition is turning it into something bad and dangerous.

Don't know why I'm going into such detail with out even asking for anything concrete in the way of advice. Guess I'm just venting because I can't exactly explain this stuff to too many people in my life without them either getting worried or just looking at me like I'm from Neptune. Believe it or not, I'm actually a pretty sane down-to earth person otherwise. I'm definitely a perfectionist OCD-type though when it comes to anything musical or artistic. Anybody else out there dealing with anything similar? Sometimes I think that only thing that would work (other than a life half-lived through a haze of SSRIs and Benzos) is if I become a buddhist monk or something and never listened to music again. Just meditate all the time and learn to, as Leonard Cohen says, "stop fretting over your next masterpiece and learn how to settle into the REAL masterpiece." Sounds nice, but also kind of boring.

More advice would be most welcome.

Thanks,
-G

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by gervish

Weirdly, when ever I put in a long day of "high-focus" work on music recording or rehearsing, (I'm a professional songwriter and composer), those are the nights when the jolts end up being the worst, without fail.

This is a clue. I'm reminded of when I was seeing a breathing physiotherapist for my HVS (see the book 'Breathe to Succeed' by Tania Clifton-Smith - highly recommended and you may find it useful) she described how the body has energy cycles throughout the day. She recommended that I take regular breaks to allow the body time to rest in between that 'high-focus' work. When we work hard all day without adequate breaks, at night the brain can't figure out how to wind down and relax and go to sleep. Also, the meditation you mention could be very helpful.

I think the jolts are the brain's alerting system waking you to warn you of potential danger - there isn't any actual danger but the system is hyper-sensitive and keeps alerting when it shouldn't. Rest breaks, good breathing techniques, relaxation techniques and meditation could all possibly help to calm down the alerting system. Just my two cents worth, anyway.

[niknash]

Guitar77 - your PM box is full and I wanted to ask you specifically about your experience about this. What you experienced sounds exactly like what happened to me when I tried to reinstate on Lexapro. Had you ever had these before the adverse reaction?

Before ssri's and during I had the things where you jolt awake when you feel like you are falling but the horrible feeling in the head was so different and constant when I tried to go back on the Lexapro...it seems very similar to what you are describing here. Almost like a zap or twitch or something in my head which happened over and over- did not sleep for 2 nights AT ALL!!

[gervish]

Hi folks. It's been a while since I've been on here. Thanks everybody for still keeping at it and helping each other get through these challenges. I'm happy to say that I've been SSRI and Benzo free now for about 7 months, and while it's still tough, I feel much better than I have in a long while.

As for the night jolts, I still get them from time to time but I no longer think I'm dying when they happen, which makes them less scary. Occasionally I get a bad one that does indeed feel like a visit from the grim reaper, but I quickly identify it as what it is, which is my mind violently transitioning from a stressful day into night, and I calm down faster than I once did.

I have started meditation, and while it's hard to always be disciplined about it, it really does help. Try the counting method. You count to ten while taking ten deep breaths and repeat this for 30min. If 30 is too hard at first, try starting with 15 min or even 10 min. Be sure your exhales are slightly longer than your inhales. Apparently this has positive effects on how much oxygen is in your blood and aids in relaxing. The main thing is to try and just think about the numbers themselves and nothing else. Almost like you were watching a Zen-Sesame Street episode. I picture a very smooth and soothing font and imagine the numbers floating away from my face, getting smaller and smaller as they recede into the dark nothingness in sync with my breath leaving my nostrils. I try to do it during the day in the later afternoon. It does help enormously.

Hope this helps! Best of luck folks!

Thanks,
Gervish