Generalised Anxiety Disorder

[Junior]

Originally Posted by fishy

This would imply GAD is basically a chemical imbalance or series of chemical imbalances. I was diagnosed with panic disorder which CBT is used to treat and is thought by some to be the result of irrational cognitive behaviors. So are these diseases related? Are the stated neurological causes of GAD FACT or THEORY?

The reason I ask is I'm not so sure GAD and panic disorder are really that much different. Since I have been on meds and doing CBT I RARELY have panic attacks. BUT I feel anxiety almost all day, every day. So can panic disorder be a severe form of GAD or GAD with an additional complication of a negative feedback loop that causes occasional severe atatcks? Most people I know who suffered from panic disorder and have beaten the panic attacks describe still having lower level anxiety (like GAD). And if GAD is truly chemically based, this would imply you would have to change your brains chemisty to "fix" it. That would have to be through drugs or repeated actions or behaviors that would change your brain chemistry.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but maybe that is why CBT works well to stop panic attacks but may not be as effective in totally removing unwanted anxiety. You fixed the cognitive part, but you also have to fix the chemical part (which again can be done without drugs but takes longer).

Just blabbing. Anyone care to respond?

Have you read the posts I did when I first started the thread? It's what I learned during 3rd year psychology. I also did my own research, looking specifically for studies on GAD because I was finally discovering that what I'd had for over 20 years actually had a name!

I believe we can learn to cope a lot better by changing the way we think. It has certainly helped me. But I also don't believe that it 'cures' the original disorder. No matter what I do, I always seem to have a overactive nervous system. And that was long before I touched Paxil.

[stan]

Originally Posted by Junior

I believe we can learn to cope a lot better by changing the way we think. It has certainly helped me. But I also don't believe that it 'cures' the original disorder. No matter what I do, I always seem to have a overactive nervous system. And that was long before I touched Paxil.

it is me too !

[warbird]

The word I haven't seen used in this thread is "acceptance". If you have GAD, it's not a death sentence. Stan (who's posted on this thread) is a 60 year old according to his signature. I'm in my mid-40's. I've had GAD since my mid-teens. The majority of my life, it's been a non-factor other than a tendancy to worry a bit more than others. I've had a few outbreaks of high anxiety but they eased after a few months. I can absolutely accept and even imbrace the GAD when I'm not in a high anxiety state.

My point is; we've delt with it our entire lives. Many of us are in the third or fourth quarter of our lives. For most of us, the GA intensity has had high points and low points thru out.

I'd rather have GA than a lot of the other, much more serious conditions people cope with everyday.

[fishy]

whoa! I'm in violent agreement. I was just pointing out some similarities between people post-treatment (med/CBT) panic disorder and GA. It almost seems after you learn to handle the panic attacks you are left basically with GAD. Not that that's so horrible...I agree 100%. I have anxiety every day and love my life. But I was just wondering if these are in fact 2 different conditions or just variants of the same i.e. panic is GA with some extra irrational cognitive baggage thrown in.

[warbird]

Originally Posted by fishy

whoa! I'm in violent agreement. I was just pointing out some similarities between people post-treatment (med/CBT) panic disorder and GA. It almost seems after you learn to handle the panic attacks you are left basically with GAD. Not that that's so horrible...I agree 100%. I have anxiety every day and love my life. But I was just wondering if these are in fact 2 different conditions or just variants of the same i.e. panic is GA with some extra irrational cognitive baggage thrown in.

Obviously you have to filter any information you read on the internet. I don't agree that everyone is left with GA after dealing with panic attacks. Anxiety is so much more common than people realize. The stats that say 20-40 million American's deal with some form of anxiety is B.S.. I'd argue that it's much higher than that. I know so many folks who are not diagnosed with anxiety that have it, demonstrated by their behaviours.

I know a lot of people who had an episode or bout of high anxiety or panic attacks who recovered and moved on w/their lives w/out GA. My belief is people who state that they "now have" GA after a bout of panic attacks, had it before too and just didn't realize it.

I think far too many people get so rattled by a bout of high anxiety or panic attacks that they become consumed by it and it becomes their life. They live on boards like this constantly reinforcing how terrible they have it. Its no secret that many folks join a site like this to learn how to get off these drugs, cope with a bout of high anxiety and then LEAVE the site when they heal or recover to go on with their lives.. That's certainly my plan too.

[stan]

what i have experienced and this is very important to know to well understand anxiety disorder

before med GAD feels harmful but natural, healthy and respond well to thinking pattern

during meds GAD first disappears and after time comes back but is different and med prevent to respond well to thinking pattern (as in benzo org uk ashton says :""" Anxiety persisting after the acute phase of withdrawal may be partly due to the uncovering of a learning defect caused by the benzodiazepines. These drugs specifically impair the learning of new skills, including stress-coping strategies. Such skills are normally acquired continuously from childhood to middle age or later as experience of life accumulates. Their development may be blocked for a period of years during which benzodiazepines are taken. After withdrawal the ex-user is left in a vulnerable state with a decreased ability to deal with stressful situations. Full recovery may require many months of learning new stress-coping strategies to replace the years when this facility was blanketed by pills.""
what is written for benzo is similar to AD, i lived this

and today i am in a new state vulnerable as explained above, with an increasing GAD from my original because paxil and slowly trying to reach my state before paxil to try to cope with a natural healthy GAD with CBT and personal fighting patterns

[texgirl]

I just want to add one more perspective: It is possible, because of our experience with psychotropic medication, to gain a completely different perspective on GAD. I can honestly say that, thanks to all the research and work I did on myself during my 3 years on meds and (now) 3-1/2 years off, I no longer suffer from GAD. I may be strung a bit more tightly than some people and tend to be a perfectionist, but I no longer consider myself to be an anxious person. This after 6+ years ago being diagnosed by a psychiatrist as someone who would need to be medicated "for life."

In other words, a diagnosis of GAD that led you to meds is no guarantee that you'll have to accept that diagnosis once the meds are discontinued.

[stan]

Originally Posted by texgirl

I just want to add one more perspective: It is possible, because of our experience with psychotropic medication, to gain a completely different perspective on GAD. I can honestly say that, thanks to all the research and work I did on myself during my 3 years on meds and (now) 3-1/2 years off, I no longer suffer from GAD. I may be strung a bit more tightly than some people and tend to be a perfectionist, but I no longer consider myself to be an anxious person. This after 6+ years ago being diagnosed by a psychiatrist as someone who would need to be medicated "for life."

In other words, a diagnosis of GAD that led you to meds is no guarantee that you'll have to accept that diagnosis once the meds are discontinued.

maybe it will happen to me too, i would be so happy

[kathleen2]

Applauding this: "I have anxiety every day and love my life." And Warbird putting it all in perspective: i.e., I too hate my panic & GAD, but there ARE much much worse things.

Tex, your post is heartening. I'm definitely not where you are yet. Can I ask: were you anxious when you were little?

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by kathleen2

Tex, your post is heartening. I'm definitely not where you are yet. Can I ask: were you anxious when you were little?

Yes, definitely. I always had a worrier's mind. I remember being very young, maybe 5 or 6, and sobbing one night in the bathtub because I was sure my parents were secretly withholding the information that I was adopted. (I was not.) Another time I had hysterics because I didn't want to get married someday and have to give up my last name! (Little did I realize then the possibility that nobody would ever ask me to. ) I always over-thought and over-analyzed everything and envisioned the most bizarre and unlikely scenarios. And yet, that same overactive imagination was what eventually made me a novelist. It's all about how you channel it...

[Junior]

Originally Posted by fishy

whoa! I'm in violent agreement. I was just pointing out some similarities between people post-treatment (med/CBT) panic disorder and GA. It almost seems after you learn to handle the panic attacks you are left basically with GAD. Not that that's so horrible...I agree 100%. I have anxiety every day and love my life. But I was just wondering if these are in fact 2 different conditions or just variants of the same i.e. panic is GA with some extra irrational cognitive baggage thrown in.

Before meds I would say they are different. Studies have revealed differences in brain function of sufferers of both and the differences are ... err... different! LOL! But after meds, it's hard to say since meds change brain function.

[Junior]

Originally Posted by warbird

The word I haven't seen used in this thread is "acceptance". If you have GAD, it's not a death sentence. Stan (who's posted on this thread) is a 60 year old according to his signature. I'm in my mid-40's. I've had GAD since my mid-teens. The majority of my life, it's been a non-factor other than a tendancy to worry a bit more than others. I've had a few outbreaks of high anxiety but they eased after a few months. I can absolutely accept and even imbrace the GAD when I'm not in a high anxiety state.

My point is; we've delt with it our entire lives. Many of us are in the third or fourth quarter of our lives. For most of us, the GA intensity has had high points and low points thru out.

I'd rather have GA than a lot of the other, much more serious conditions people cope with everyday.

I wish my GAD had just been a tendency to worry a bit more than others. That was one part and I've largely learnt to worry a lot less. But I have a nervous system that pre-Paxil (who knows what it will be like post-Paxil?) operated in a state of hyper-arousal, which meant that it took very little to tip me over the edge. Changing my thinking patterns will no doubt lessen that but I have yet to see to what extent.

[fishy]

Then perhaps some people with panic disorder also have GAD or develop GAD as a result of their panic i.e. they become oversensitized to anxiety. That also sound possible.

I am just going from my own experience. After having Panic Disorder for 10 yrs, I have been on meds and am now into CBT. Havent had a "full-blown" panic attack in a while, but have had a few "mini-attacks". Even the mini-attacks are becoming rare and I am left with almost constant, low-level anxiety which does not appear to have a single cognitive trigger. Certainly the stess of daily life makes it worse and I am more sensitive than most when these normal stressors come up. But I would be willing to bet my symptoms now are closer to GAD than anything else. I do have times when I feel totally normal i.e. stess free (which are WONDERFUL).

So I still maintain there may be a connection between GAD and panic disorder.

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by Junior

Changing my thinking patterns will no doubt lessen that but I have yet to see to what extent.

Changing my thinking patterns turned it around for me 180 degrees. I'm not saying it will be that effective for everyone, but I think that others who are still struggling and wondering if they should keep working at it should be encouraged to hear this.

[warbird]

Originally Posted by fishy

Even the mini-attacks are becoming rare and I am left with almost constant, low-level anxiety which does not appear to have a single cognitive trigger. Certainly the stess of daily life makes it worse and I am more sensitive than most when these normal stressors come up. But I would be willing to bet my symptoms now are closer to GAD than anything else. I do have times when I feel totally normal i.e. stess free (which are WONDERFUL).

What you are discribing fishy is my daily life too. While I've never had classic panic attacks per say, I get what I refer to as "waves" of elevated anxiety. I feel a lot of dread, worry a bit of fear that it won't end but no sweating, high heart beat, etc. These pass quickly and I'm left with muscle tenion in my traps. I get a few a day. I generally just feel muscle tension and like you, any stress elevates these symptoms.

I feel like I have my head wrapped around my anxiety in that i don't generally fear it anymore. I know it's just classic GA.

What I wonder about is, what percent of this is anxiety from the w/d and what percent in my normal anxiety that's just in an elevated state. I know it shouldn't matter, as you have cope with either. It would just be nice to know this will be better once the wean and w/d are done..

[warbird]

Originally Posted by texgirl

Changing my thinking patterns turned it around for me 180 degrees. I'm not saying it will be that effective for everyone, but I think that others who are still struggling and wondering if they should keep working at it should be encouraged to hear this.

Can you expand on this?

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by warbird

Can you expand on this?

No big secrets, just basic CBT techniques, working hard to challenge negative, catastrophic, black-and-white thoughts. I'm no expert, but it does work, and it gets easier with practice.

[fishy]

Just FYI...my morning anxiety has been decreasing. I believe the nicotine withdrawal is finally coming to an end. I am also learning not to fight my anxiety, but to change my thinking where possible - and accept the anxiety when that does not work. I hate the old "go with the flow" phrase, but sometimes we need to not fight our issue, but accept and embrace them. Only then will they not be a problem for us.

My wife is going out of town for 5 days leaving me with the two kids...this is one week before I have to stand trial for a (bogus) DUI charge. Many stressors in my life...but it's all good. I welcome my present because it is MY life that I have chosen. My future I cannot predict. My past I cannot change.

[Junior]

bump

[Junior]

*bump*

[staceyw]

What a great section on GAD! I don't think this was here the last time I checked in (before today). Tell me more about the GAD and how to change thought patterns? I'm the one who DREADS everything and WORRIES about every little thing and feels responsible for every little thing AND am over perfectionistic. help LOL Where can I find help for this that isn't about a pill??

[kathrynE]

Have you ever tried breathing techniques using (I guess u buy CDs now but I'm using my old caseettes I got at a Chronic Pain Management Clinic in Canmore, AB). U can buy them at most bookstore or hunt down in second hand stores. I find them wonderfully relaxing, great for refocusing negative thinking and helpful for sleeping (even pain). I'm just starting and have been in divorce related stress and trying to disengage my thouughts from the sadness and regret and guilt because of my childrens estrangement due to all my years of using psychotropic drugs and how it made their lives so hard. They also help when the sadness becomes embedded or turns to depression. I find when I'm angry or resentful after having to have even verbal contact with ex who is so skilled in his verbal abuse, I can let go of the feelings after a half hour session. They are not the be all end all but sure help me and without drugs! I think they're worth a try and a lot cheaper than therapy! Just my experience. Anxiety can be overwhelming I know. I've dealt with it for years. That u can laugh is great! Laughter is also great and a brisk 1/2 hour walk is also helpful and great exercise.
I truly empathize
Kathryn

[Gracings]

I am glad to see this bumped to the top, as I needed to read through this. I believe that GAD is what brought me to SSRIs in the first place, and now I am revisiting those old feelings in waves. The difference is that I am now trying to remember to use my tools....remembering, though, if another matter. LOL.

Last night, I pulled out my favorite relaxation DVD. It seriously helped me with a nagging backache, and I slept very well.

Tools, you guys. We have to remember our tools.

[Junior]

Originally Posted by staceyw

What a great section on GAD! I don't think this was here the last time I checked in (before today). Tell me more about the GAD and how to change thought patterns? I'm the one who DREADS everything and WORRIES about every little thing and feels responsible for every little thing AND am over perfectionistic. help LOL Where can I find help for this that isn't about a pill??

I am so slack. I started this thread yet I have only just read your post! Sorry

Changing thinking patterns is one of the central tenets of CBT or "cognitive behaviour therapy". We usually don't realise that many of our thinking patterns are faulty and these can definitely be changed.

Aside from that, it's about recognising that our nervous system is over-active and not allowing ourselves to be frightened by it. It just is. For sufferers of GAD a minor threat such as someone getting in our way while walking could be interpreted as a major threat such as a lion about to attack. It sends our nervous system into hyperdrive as it prepares the body to fight this mortal threat. This is where the heart palpitations, increased adrenaline and other symptoms come from. So if we learn to accept that this is just how our bodies function, we can learn to let it go.
The same applies with our penchant for over-analysing. We think that if we can just get to the bottom of it, our anxiety will go away. Not so. In fact, often we are over-analysing something we don't even really need to know!
It takes practice to stop ourselves from doing this but it gets easier with time.

I highly recommend Claire Weeks book "Hope and Help For Your Nerves". Although written in the 60s it shows amazing insight and some very practical advice for dealing with anxiety. You can buy it online.

[Bilo76]

Junior, i have an anxiety disorder with agoraphobia. But i do the same. The same faulty thinking patterns and over-analyzing. Sometimes i think that there is just 1 anxiety didorder. No difference between gad, agoraphobia, healt anxiety, social anxiety