What kind of therapies are there?

[jcsneddon]

Originally Posted by andy013

CBT is really good IMO but it takes work. You can't just go to a therapist for 1 hour per week and expect to see changes. The few therapists that I have seen never really forced me to do the work myself. It was only when I really started working on my issues intensively on my own that I started to see some progress. You need to constantly be challenging your thinking on a daily basis over and over. It also required you to really look at why you are feeling the way you are (what are the subconscious thoughts going through your head that are making you feel anxious?) If you don't understand what part of your thinking is irrational then it's impossible to challenge it. It is not a passive process, it takes a lot of work.
.

absolutely agree with everything you say here andy, my cbt therapists never really made it clear how important it was for me to do the exercises at home but is absolutely essential and it is amazing when it starts working

[kathleen2]

Agree about Burns. He's really good at describing how depression and/or anxiety paralyze us and how thoughts and behaviors feed off each other.

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by scotty

It doesn't matter that the "cause" is. That's the point of therapy,especially CBT. It's relearning how to react to that situation, regardless of the cause. There is rarely a distinct "withdrawal vs original condition(when there is an original condition)" and searching for that distinction only confuses you more.

Time to make the commitment to therapy, or taking the pill. Therapy isn't going to be effective until you embrace it and not constantly believe that taking the pill is the solution.

I disagree scotty. First of all it does matter what to cause is. I spend hours and hours on CBT in the past. And look where it got me. I have some real deeper fundamental issues. For instance when i read all these replies and i think "yessss, perhaps if i dont take any drugs but work really hard on myself with therapy i can be happy"..if i think that for 1 sec then i feel such a resistance coming from inside, my stomach turns over by the idea of me being better and happy. I wanna remain on the dark side. All my life i been sabotaging myself. And now in wd and with drugs its 10 times as much. I am telling you; i am not exaggerating, i test this a lot. If i sit in a chair and i think "ok bilo, within 4 years you are 40 but you can have a wife, kids, a responsible job, you can travel"...only that thought shrinks me. It literally shrinks me,..i bend over and feel so much fear. just from a thought. I cant handle life. I cant handle happiness. I still feel like a boy. And thats such a big issue. CBT cant help with that. CBT learns how to extinguish fires and when you do it very well it even prevents fires. but it doesnt remove the wood or the matches. But what therapy can help me with this core problem of me not being a grown up,..not being able to be happy, not being able to stand up to life. Anybody? I am SO scared about this. If you dont wanna see yourself happy,..how can a therapy help if you are not committed? I am so scared

Claire Weekes, who is 100% about CBT says the following on page 40 of her book 'selfhelp for the nerves':

"..Whilst this method is excellent for minor fears, major fears must be attacked by their source, otherwise unmasking fear is only dodging the issue. By major fear i mean a fear big enough to have originally caused the breakdown and to be now interfering with recovery.."

Secondly; its not that simple. I must choose between the gallows and the guillotine. On one hand stay drugless and do therapy,..on other hand go on a drug and do therapy. Both are wrong. I can NOT take it anymore. I have to much anxiety, depression, wd. And especially the DP/DR is killing me. It's almost psychotic, sometimes i lose touch of reality. Its so scary and its always there. I CTed from paxil 9 months ago and it was suddenly there and it has never been away. And combined with my huge original problem i simply cant take it no more. Every week i break a little bit more. So off course staying of drugs is better, but not if you cant take it no more.
But on the drugs,..even if they work (i dont think paxil will work so i think i will try prozac then, still its a big if) it will remove my dp, anxiety, depression and scary thoughts about death. BUT therefore it will also remove my possibility of looking this intense fundamental fear in the eye. I hope its not a hormone deficiency so its something inside me. Something i must defeat with months of heavy therapy. But an SSRi will remove the anxiety and thoughts so i cant feel it and therefore cant fight it anymore. But the problem is still there deep down, all though i feel it less. I go on with the same life as i have lived the last 10 years,...able to function but never really happy. Always finding ways to keep myself down. Getting IBS when i am with a gril, pushing my parents away, not doing my best at work, drinking a lot of alcohol. All signs that yes i can function like sports and parties and leave the house, but i will just keep fearing a happy me and will make sure i am never happy, like i have done for the past 20 years. With an ssri i will just be a bright shining car with a new metallic polish, but with the same crappy warn-out engine. And in 10 years when i am 45 i will have the same problem again. BUT at least i can live. I really believe i am one of the worst WDs on this forum. And that for 9 months now. Everyday alone with suicidal thoughts, dp/dr, panic, anxiety, not leaving the house, burning nerves, adrenalin bursts, depression and total madness. I can not take it anymore. There are some days i can handle it better but overall there is a decline. Do you have any idea who it is to really doubt if your life is a dream,,, and really look in the mirror and feeling so scared cause you dont recognize who you are? Being scared of death 200 times per day. Not being able to do a simple thing as going to the store? Pure fear,..really pure fear i feel in my core day after day
So you understand my problem scotty? Its not just about either swallowing a pill or do therapy. Hell i cant even drive to the therapist,..so how can i follow therapy?

Originally Posted by jcsneddon

feeling good is by david burns. clinical trials have found that just reading this book has a significant effect on mood, it's called bibliotherapy! this book is the leading book on CBT which is why this was used.

but the cbt exercises are fantastic! but you need to do them every day and it can take weeks but it is absolutely worth it i promise. i am going through a bit of a blip at the moment but with my daily cbt i know i will crack it.

Thanks for the tips m8

[Junior]

Bilo have you ever thought about how much energy you are putting into your negative thoughts? What if you put that much energy / effort into positive thoughts?

Also, did you look up the links I gave you in another thread about anxiety, panic disorder and GAD? I feel like I'm being ignored, yet after studying to honours level in psychology I feel I have a lot to offer you.

[kathleen2]

Bilo, it seems like your life consists almost entirely of ruminating about your life. Whatever therapy you choose, this is something to work on.

Also the notion that life will start when you're "better": no. Life is the present.

Also also: re-reading a mindfulness article this morning, I came across this: "You are afraid to be without fear." This is sure as heck true for me. It's comforting because they're familiar, fear and worry, and has been for 40 years. Like an abusive spouse or a bottle of whiskey, sometimes we choose the devil we know. Which leads to a fear-based life:

"There is very little mental rest"
"You continually mistrust your judgement"
"You perpetually second-guess yourself"
You seek assurance/reassurance
"You change your mind"
"You postpone making decisions"

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by Junior

feel like I'm being ignored, yet after studying to honours level in psychology I feel I have a lot to offer you.

Hahahahaha,..i would never dare to ignore you. I didnt respond to any of the therapy suggestions in this thread cause i wanna take some time to look up what they do and whats it about. So cant really give a fundamental reply to you. Will do so when i read about it. Still the fact remains that i dont think i cant go on without drugs. But perhaps i surprise myself. But when i read people who had the same hell as i have;..few keep going without an RI. Akaenew is one of those. But i am not as strong as her. And she had this insane DP for 14 months before it got better. I am really not that strong. And neither is my family who also cant deal with this no more.

Originally Posted by kathleen2

Bilo, it seems like your life consists almost entirely of ruminating about your life. Whatever therapy you choose, this is something to work on.

I agree. But what else to do if every day is this hard? I try to think about other stuff and put my mind off things. But its hard. How to paint (i like painting) if every sec i have a feeling my arms are that of a robot. How to watch a movie if you cry every 15 mins. I saw a movie today hahaha and i suddenly cried when a puppydog was shown. I try to get out and meet the wolrd, but the fear is just to big. And when i go out i hear this voice over and over in my head "just kill yourself bilo". non stop anxiety. So its kinda hard to not ruminate about my life. This is my life i am wasting here kathleen. BUT i agree with you, i just have to find a way to put it in practice. Its just;..its like a bad dream. I cant explain it. The dp/dr make me feel like its unreal,..and then the non stop adrenalin and anxiety, and my original problem. its like i am in hell labyrinth and my mind keeps looking non stop for the way out. its all like a bad dream.

Originally Posted by kathleen2

Also the notion that life will start when you're "better": no. Life is the present.

This is no life kathleen. Trust me. Life is really really hard now. I cant do anything i wanna do. Or it comes with consequences

Originally Posted by kathleen2

Also also: re-reading a mindfulness article this morning, I came across this: "You are afraid to be without fear." This is sure as heck true for me. It's comforting because they're familiar, fear and worry, and has been for 40 years. Like an abusive spouse or a bottle of whiskey, sometimes we choose the devil we know. Which leads to a fear-based life:

"There is very little mental rest"
"You continually mistrust your judgement"
"You perpetually second-guess yourself"
You seek assurance/reassurance
"You change your mind"
"You postpone making decisions"

Thank you. I will keep this in mind!! You have a link to that article? Love to read it

[LCrawford67]

Remco, are you sure you don't want to do some retail therapy with me? New shoes always make me feel better

You've got a lot of good advice in this thread. Hope you find what works for you.

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by LCrawford67

Remco, are you sure you don't want to do some retail therapy with me? New shoes always make me feel better

You've got a lot of good advice in this thread. Hope you find what works for you.

Well i am more of a gadget kinda guy. I just bought a new phone (samsung galaxy S3)..so i need some stuff for that. Also i need some new t-shirts haha

I got some good advice ya. Need to read it all back. It's just that no-one can understand how i feel,..just as i cant understand how my ex had anorexia and was standing in the mirror weighing 80 pounds and still insisted she was fat, even if i could point out her bones to her. Heavy mental problems we just cant understand if we dont have them. But at least you guys can relate more then the stupid doctors can. I am going to see a psychiatrist this week. A new one. And i swear;..if i tell him about my dp/dr and adrenalin bursts and burning nerves and depression and he tells me "its my original problem". Man i am gonna pound his face with my fitness 6 feet 4 inch body and dont stop till he is a pile of snot.

Anyhowwwwwww.....if i could just get a little bit progress in just one section. Or the bad WD, or the insane original problem, or that chronic hyperventilating syndrome (every week hospital but isnt helping). I am balancing to many balls here. i feel like george michael in a las vegas toilet

[LCrawford67]

And through it all....you maintain that sense of humor. That was hysterical!

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by LCrawford67

And through it all....you maintain that sense of humor. That was hysterical!

Well i think that defines me. I spend hours looking in the mirror. I am so lost;..i cant explain. i think its the WD;..but i dont know who or what i am. Who is me. Its like i am either lost and far away from my identity ,..or perhaps i am very close for the first time..i dont know. Anyways i look in the mirror and i write down things about myself and i look myself in the eye for a long time (i know;..creepy). but 2 things always remained....i laugh every day at least 3 times, even if i cry 10 times. And i never have a problem sexually. Haha i was thinking that yesterday. I have been on a lot of paxil for many years, on lexapro. Been on so much oxazepam. Now in WD....and in all these times i not once had any sexual problems. I remember laying in the mental hospital,...i was so scared,..really scared. They had to close the door, and my belt was taken away,..and the guy next to me was screaming that the voices told him the devil was coming. And i was on 20 mg lexapro and 50 mg oxazepam. And STILL i remember thinking "damn that nurse is hot, shall i ask her if she also dates immature men". Hahaha i am not kidding you,..i was still aroused. So i at least now for sure that the identity of Bilo is anxious, scared, funny and horny. I think i am the reincarnation of charlie chaplin. HAha i saw a docu of him;..he was exactly that. Now i just need time to fill in the rest of whats me

[kathleen2]

Bilo, do you mean that you *literally* look at yourself in the mirror for hours every day?

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by kathleen2

Bilo, do you mean that you *literally* look at yourself in the mirror for hours every day?

Well,..to be precise;..it varies. But at least 1 hr a day yes. I am telling you,..i am almost psychotic,..despite my jokes;..losing grip sometimes of who or what i am. I hope to find something in my eyes,..something in my face that can lead me back home. I dont know where i am,..i cant see myself in my eyes. But i dont recognize myself. And it scares me...that s why i dont look much at my legs or arms. My dp/dr is really insane. I know you guys think i am exaggerating. But it is really bad.

[kathleen2]

I believe you. But *the more vigilant you are--the more you monitor/scan yourself--the more DP & DR you'll have.* Guaranteed.

This would be a good behavior to work on--don't stare at yourself in the mirror tomorrow, and see how it goes. Limit yourself to only looking normal amounts, like when you get ready in the morning.

[Junior]

Sorry Bilo, but I give up. You have not responded to anything that I've said, in this thread or any of the other recent ones you've started. I know you want validation for what you are going through -even if you feel that no-one here really understands - but since you are asking for help, don't you think you also need to respond to those who are offering it?

For what it's worth, I also think you need to stop wallowing in your own self pity and actively DO something about your situation.

[kathleen2]

I too worry we're just enabling really unhealthy behavior, and perpetuating endless self-regard. So I'll step away, too, but I do wish you good luck.

[Junior]

Mmmmm thanks Kathleen. I was a bit harsh there wasn't I? Bilo, best of luck mate. I do care but I want you to DO something. All this ruminating is NOT helping. Good luck xx

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by Junior

Sorry Bilo, but I give up. You have not responded to anything that I've said, in this thread or any of the other recent ones you've started. I know you want validation for what you are going through -even if you feel that no-one here really understands - but since you are asking for help, don't you think you also need to respond to those who are offering it?

For what it's worth, I also think you need to stop wallowing in your own self pity and actively DO something about your situation.

Hmm this is indeed harsh. You made me cry. Thanks for that.
Junior i have over 1000 replies. 80% of those are replies to others, to help or to bring a laugh. You have any idea how many times i reform what i actually think? I often think 'who cares you have that little problem, be happy you dont have more'. Or 'stop being so negative and find some humor in your life'. But i dont. I think this forum is about supporting each other and if you cant make your point in a nice way; then dont reply.
This is the 3th time you said during a discussion with me "i give up". I dont see a living soul all day and if people on this forum say that; it makes me feel even more alone. I remember i went hiking with my dad in the mountains 5 years ago. It was very weird, he never had fear of heights but we were at some point at a very small path and to the right was miles of nothing. And suddenly my dad got all white in his face, he grabbed a tree and he stood there. Petrified and shaking with fear. A 60 year old man. He couldnt move anymore or look at his own feet. He kept grabbing on that tree and closing his eyes. I told him that if he moved his feet to the right; he could walk my way and we be out. But he refused and kept holding to that fear.
I think that is the same way i am now. I am so scared; i cant let go. I dont know what to do. I am holding to my fear in fear it will get worse.
But junior,..i never told my dad "you know what dad, i told you 3 times now there is a path next to you, you wont take it,...i am out". Apparently he needed my help more, not less.

As to the topic. I think you are right in 1 part. I am wallowing in self pity. Perhaps because it's to much for me to handle, perhaps because i have a personality disorder (for instance a dramatizing disorder) and i need the attention. Perhaps this is my learned way of communicating. It doesnt matter. I think it's good you pointed that out (all be it in a harsh way) and i have to try to learn to less feel like its the end of the world for me. All though the lexapro did nothing for me and i CTed after 14 years from paxil;..i dont think many can understand that. Still,..you are right; deal the cards you are delt with and act.

I do NOT however agree that you say i dont listen. What i have done and learned from this thread:

- I copy pasted all the suggestions of therapy in a list and are writing down what they mean and do by looking it up into google
- I ordered the book of Burns yesterday and will do the exercises once i have the book at home.
- Yesterday i listened to some mindfulness tapes cause i think babs is right. i need some more spirituality.
- i read the EFT article that was suggested but i dont think its something for me.
- Jo opened my eyes with "I tried CBT several times over the years as well as other therapies. none of them worked that great for me as i didn't really do the homework or was feeling pretty good anyway from the paxil.". Cause i also did that. The paxil helped to much so i couldnt face my fear. I spoken about thaty sentence to my mother and she agreed. I also didnt do the homework...but i am afraid thats not because i was feeling to good but because i am always sabotaging myself. Thats why i asked for a therapy to counter that.
- Kathleens reply was very useful. I think she is 100% right. I am afraid to be without fear. i thought about Kathleens sentence a lot last evening.
- Also i dont do nothing. I have an appointment with a CBT therapist today, with an acupuncture tomorrow, with a psychiatrist on wednesday. Much for a guy who is afraid to leave the house. So dont tell me i dont do anything, that is not fair!!

So i think i have picked up quit a bit. But i havent had answers to my biggest question. I am sabotaging myself, i am still a kid who cries for his mother (literally), i am not trusting myself to stand alone, somehow i didnt matured, i dont know why i do this, apperently i have no faith in myself, no trust. How and with what therapy can i attack that? That is my number 1 question.

Originally Posted by kathleen2

I too worry we're just enabling really unhealthy behavior, and perpetuating endless self-regard. So I'll step away, too, but I do wish you good luck.

Et toi brutus

[Junior]

Originally Posted by Bilo76

Hmm this is indeed harsh. You made me cry. Thanks for that.
Junior i have over 1000 replies. 80% of those are replies to others, to help or to bring a laugh. You have any idea how many times i reform what i actually think? I often think 'who cares you have that little problem, be happy you dont have more'. Or 'stop being so negative and find some humor in your life'. But i dont. I think this forum is about supporting each other and if you cant make your point in a nice way; then dont reply.
This is the 3th time you said during a discussion with me "i give up". I dont see a living soul all day and if people on this forum say that; it makes me feel even more alone. I remember i went hiking with my dad in the mountains 5 years ago. It was very weird, he never had fear of heights but we were at some point at a very small path and to the right was miles of nothing. And suddenly my dad got all white in his face, he grabbed a tree and he stood there. Petrified and shaking with fear. A 60 year old man. He couldnt move anymore or look at his own feet. He kept grabbing on that tree and closing his eyes. I told him that if he moved his feet to the right; he could walk my way and we be out. But he refused and kept holding to that fear.
I think that is the same way i am now. I am so scared; i cant let go. I dont know what to do. I am holding to my fear in fear it will get worse.
But junior,..i never told my dad "you know what dad, i told you 3 times now there is a path next to you, you wont take it,...i am out". Apparently he needed my help more, not less.

As to the topic. I think you are right in 1 part. I am wallowing in self pity. Perhaps because it's to much for me to handle, perhaps because i have a personality disorder (for instance a dramatizing disorder) and i need the attention. Perhaps this is my learned way of communicating. It doesnt matter. I think it's good you pointed that out (all be it in a harsh way) and i have to try to learn to less feel like its the end of the world for me. All though the lexapro did nothing for me and i CTed after 14 years from paxil;..i dont think many can understand that. Still,..you are right; deal the cards you are delt with and act.

I do NOT however agree that you say i dont listen. What i have done and learned from this thread:

- I copy pasted all the suggestions of therapy in a list and are writing down what they mean and do by looking it up into google
- I ordered the book of Burns yesterday and will do the exercises once i have the book at home.
- Yesterday i listened to some mindfulness tapes cause i think babs is right. i need some more spirituality.
- i read the EFT article that was suggested but i dont think its something for me.
- Jo opened my eyes with "I tried CBT several times over the years as well as other therapies. none of them worked that great for me as i didn't really do the homework or was feeling pretty good anyway from the paxil.". Cause i also did that. The paxil helped to much so i couldnt face my fear. I spoken about thaty sentence to my mother and she agreed. I also didnt do the homework...but i am afraid thats not because i was feeling to good but because i am always sabotaging myself. Thats why i asked for a therapy to counter that.
- Kathleens reply was very useful. I think she is 100% right. I am afraid to be without fear. i thought about Kathleens sentence a lot last evening.
- Also i dont do nothing. I have an appointment with a CBT therapist today, with an acupuncture tomorrow, with a psychiatrist on wednesday. Much for a guy who is afraid to leave the house. So dont tell me i dont do anything, that is not fair!!

So i think i have picked up quit a bit. But i havent had answers to my biggest question. I am sabotaging myself, i am still a kid who cries for his mother (literally), i am not trusting myself to stand alone, somehow i didnt matured, i dont know why i do this, apperently i have no faith in myself, no trust.

Bilo, I could sit here and type out MY life story too - and believe me, it hasn't been easy. Among other things I've had 5 episodes of depression and have had to learn how to manage and live with GAD. I have a son with autism and intellectual disability and I've endured 7 failed attempts at IVF (which nearly destroyed me since all I'd ever wanted in life was to have chidren and grandchildren) . Just last year, after turning things around by going to uni and getting a degree I was bullied in my job in mental health. But I refuse to wallow in self pity since it only makes life worse. Happiness is a choice and I choose it. I will leave it there.

How and with what therapy can i attack that? That is my number 1 question.

I answered that earlier. Seek out a talk therapist. The majority now use eclectic therapy as I posted about earlier.

This is my last post in one of these threads of yours for the time being.

[Junior]

Incidentally, an ethical requirement of psychologists is to practice within the boundaries of their knowledge. If they do not have the skills to help you, they are therefore bound to refer you on. Let them do their job. Just find one and turn up!

[Bilo76]

Ok..apperently my story that shows the difference between being scared and selfpity didnt set fruit. Lets leave it at this indeed cause i am not helped with personal attacks. I thank you for your time and effort. I certainly picked up some usefull stuff from your replies. And i dont mean that ironically, so thanks. In two hours i meet with a cbt therapist. First intake. Lets hope thats a good start. In holland we dont have something as "talktherapy". We have to choose a sort of therapy. But i will look into all the suggestions here and also google some.

[long_way_home]

Bilo: You might be able to find a "talk therapist" by looking for counselors. Counselors generally try to understand who you are as person and speak about issues that are concerning you. Depending on the counselor, they may also factor in your upbringing and try to help you understand how your past experiences have influenced who you are as a person.

I go to a counselor and I found her by looking on a website and deciding whose beliefs were similar to mine. This is the website: http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/
I know that you aren't in USA but you might be able to find a similar website in your country. That way, you can choose a therapist that you feel will fit your needs. When you read their profiles it is easier to see the different techniques they use and what their general approach to mental health and well-being is.