Chances That I WONT recover??

[aberdeen]

I'm not bashing good mental hygeine, or denying it's impact by the way. I'm just talking from the point of view of the really bad days, where there simply ISN'T much hope or positivity in us. I'm just saying that when we feel hopeless and negative, it's not going to make the healing stop, leaving us to rot in w/d hell forever. healing will still continue. That's where I'm going with this ramble...

[englishannie]

For Belacqua11
The chances that you won't recover are as good as ZERO. The best single book I ever read on depression said this: 'There are a few intractable depressions but their number is MINUTE'
Jack Dominion, psychiatrist, in a little book called simply 'Depression' (Fontana paperback, published in the late 60s/early 70s) probably out of print now.
If it weren't so hot here I'd get the book out of the loft and give you chapter and verse, but I've never forgotten what Dominian said.
You're going to be fine, even if it takes a long time, but at 23 you've got time on your side.
englishannie

[IMISSME]

Originally Posted by aberdeen

Me too. I was scared I wouldn't ever recover, who wouldn't be? A spontaneous mental breakdown that your Dr is denying is even real? If my recovery hinged upon what I "thought" at the time, I would probably be dead right now. But I'm a tonne better than I was back then. These comments, are true in theory, postive thinking improves healing etc...but we can't "think" our way out of this. I agree.

It's the old "just snap out of it" answer. Wow, this thread is very insightful. It also shows how far some of us have come since those days when our "doctor's" were telling us "it's all in our heads," here, take another med. Yikes!!!

Anyway, this is all good stuff.

[aberdeen]

Originally Posted by IMISSME

It's the old "just snap out of it" answer. Wow, this thread is very insightful. It also shows how far some of us have come since those days when our "doctor's" were telling us "it's all in our heads," here, take another med. Yikes!!!

Anyway, this is all good stuff.

The day where my psychiatrist looked at me and said "Oh no, Effexor can't do soemthing like this. I think you're under a lot of stress at home, and your anxiety has just responded to that. We have meds we can add to the Effexor as a "booster" for you during this time". It was a grey winter day and I went back to the parking lot and sat in my car and sobbed. That appointment had held so much hope, I'd already read some things here on PP, I'd had my family Dr confirm that he too believed this was a reaction to the med I was on....and I had gone to the psychiatrist to help with my taper. I went there to hear her say "Yes, you are all correct, this is a reaction to Effexor, tolerance, or withdrawal. WE'll get you off and you'll be just fine." But intead she said it was me, it was coming from within, *I* was the source for this horror and the meds were my friend??? I believed I must have developed a raging anxiety disorder 100000x worse than I ever knew I was capable of, for no discernable reason, WHILE on "good" medication??? What did that mean I would be like should I come OFF the meds if this was happening while ON them? I could either go with my gut and a bunch of strangers online, or a professionals opinion. It was when I finalized my decision that she was full of crap that I began to get strong enough to keep going and have faith I was on the right path. What a nightmare those days were!

[IMISSME]

Originally Posted by aberdeen

The day where my psychiatrist looked at me and said "Oh no, Effexor can't do soemthing like this. I think you're under a lot of stress at home, and your anxiety has just responded to that. We have meds we can add to the Effexor as a "booster" for you during this time". It was a grey winter day and I went back to the parking lot and sat in my car and sobbed. That appointment had held so much hope, I'd already read some things here on PP, I'd had my family Dr confirm that he too believed this was a reaction to the med I was on....and I had gone to the psychiatrist to help with my taper. I went there to hear her say "Yes, you are all correct, this is a reaction to Effexor, tolerance, or withdrawal. WE'll get you off and you'll be just fine." But intead she said it was me, it was coming from within, *I* was the source for this horror and the meds were my friend??? I believed I must have developed a raging anxiety disorder 100000x worse than I ever knew I was capable of, for no discernable reason, WHILE on "good" medication??? What did that mean I would be like should I come OFF the meds if this was happening while ON them? I could either go with my gut and a bunch of strangers online, or a professionals opinion. It was when I finalized my decision that she was full of crap that I began to get strong enough to keep going and have faith I was on the right path. What a nightmare those days were!

I had never seen a pdoc prior to this. I was diagnosed with MDD by the first pdoc and with MDD and GAD by the 2nd one 3 months later. That was when I found PP. I now truly believe I "led" the pdocs to my diagnosis based on my symptoms at the moment which were all due to paxil w/d. It's sad really, that psych docs have nothing else to offer. At least GPs don't have to rely soley on their ability to help one with mental issues. They can look at things a bit more objectively. My GP pretty much went along with whatever I wanted. As long as I could state my case strongly and have a "plan" she would support it.

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by aberdeen

The day where my psychiatrist looked at me and said "Oh no, Effexor can't do soemthing like this. I think you're under a lot of stress at home, and your anxiety has just responded to that. We have meds we can add to the Effexor as a "booster" for you during this time". .... she said it was me, it was coming from within, *I* was the source for this horror and the meds were my friend??? I believed I must have developed a raging anxiety disorder 100000x worse than I ever knew I was capable of, for no discernable reason, WHILE on "good" medication???

It's nonsense isn't it, they never accept that the drug could be the problem or that it isn't working in the way they think it does. Imagine if this was any other product you bought in a shop and it didn't work or caused other problems, you'd get your money back, wouldn't you. I mean, why would you add a booster to something that already isn't working?

[miriza]

Originally Posted by aberdeen

The day where my psychiatrist looked at me and said "Oh no, Effexor can't do soemthing like this. I think you're under a lot of stress at home, and your anxiety has just responded to that. We have meds we can add to the Effexor as a "booster" for you during this time". It was a grey winter day and I went back to the parking lot and sat in my car and sobbed. That appointment had held so much hope, I'd already read some things here on PP, I'd had my family Dr confirm that he too believed this was a reaction to the med I was on....and I had gone to the psychiatrist to help with my taper. I went there to hear her say "Yes, you are all correct, this is a reaction to Effexor, tolerance, or withdrawal. WE'll get you off and you'll be just fine." But intead she said it was me, it was coming from within, *I* was the source for this horror and the meds were my friend??? I believed I must have developed a raging anxiety disorder 100000x worse than I ever knew I was capable of, for no discernable reason, WHILE on "good" medication??? What did that mean I would be like should I come OFF the meds if this was happening while ON them? I could either go with my gut and a bunch of strangers online, or a professionals opinion. It was when I finalized my decision that she was full of crap that I began to get strong enough to keep going and have faith I was on the right path. What a nightmare those days were!

14 times I was told it was me responsible for this horror...14 times I felt the despair, the fear of stopping the drugs that deep inside of me I knew that were poisoning me....and I let them blow torch my brain, poison me over and over....and I am lost in this horror show that I cannot escape...

[texgirl]

As a longtime member of this site, my perspective is that all the reassurance in the world isn't going to do any good for someone who doesn't believe that recovery is possible. It's terribly difficult and painful, especially when we're in such a dark place, to have that faith. But even at my lowest point 5-6 years ago, I kept aiming for something I believed was there, even if I couldn't see or feel it (though if you had asked me to describe it, I would not even have been able to say what it was or that I believed it, that's how fundamental and primitive it was). I was (still am) grateful beyond belief for this website, but on some level I realized that I had to stop looking for answers and just trust that my body and brain would do the healing work they were designed to. For many of us who are (or were, before meds) problem-solving types, the fact that there's nothing we can do but just be is probably the hardest part of this process.

I happened to see Dr. Wayne Dyer yesterday afteroon on PBS (although as Dr. Dyer would say, nothing is accidental ), and one of the things he said was this: "If you want to accomplish something, you must first expect it from yourself."

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by texgirl

But even at my lowest point 5-6 years ago, I kept aiming for something I believed was there

But what if a part of you doesnt want to get better. I once made a post about this and i got no replies. i cant believe no-one recognizes this.
For me this is the most difficult part now. It is causing all extra anxiety and depression realizing and noticing within that a part of me doesnt want to get better. Much harder then all the WD and disorder symptoms.

I just dont believe, or ever have in my 36th years existence that something good is in store for me. And its not cause out of depression. It is also not cause of i like the attention when being hurt. I just dont know. When i think i will be happy one day my body shivers by the thought. The idea of a relationship, family, good job, standing on my own feet;...it makes my stomach turn and churn. Literally.

Today i cried 3 hours for this. I dont know why i do this. it makes me feel so hopeless that whenever i see an open door in my head (a thought like "perhaps if i do this or that exercise it will get better") i close it myself again and wanna stay in this hell. Which is weird cause a part of me keeps seeking advice on this forum, buys supplements, goes to acupuncture etc etc,..so there is a part that wants relief. But i guess there is a difference between wanting relieve of symptoms and pain then being happy.

I wish someone also had this or could advice me. I am so sick of this. been doing this for 25 years now. Selfdestructive and never accepting happiness. I can only think logical why i do this:
1.) I am in so much fear for death and for aging that i dont want to evolve, get older or grow mentally. Every new phase in life is phase closer to death
2.) I have had so much trouble in my childhood that i am afraid of life. Being happy will only open you up for new pain.
3.) I am so scared that i can not hold the responsibilities. I can not take it. I have no faith in myself. I am scared i will mess up. i am scared. I feel all the love, intimacy, happiness, steadiness as a blanket under which i can not breath. I need air.
4.) I have a personality disorder like borderline (all though i dont cut myself)

Damn texgirl, i wish i have your faith. Even in the distance like you had. But i think i can get out of the worst if this hell with or without meds. But i dont think for 0,001 % that i will ever truly be happy. Cause even with therapy this is so strong. And if you are selfdestuctive its very hard to set yoruself to things you know will be good for you. So cbt, exercises everyday is undoable cause every exercise is a fight. How can i work on the fact that i dont wanna work on myself. I asked the therapist once but he looked at me all glacey.
That i dont want to be happy and am so so so afraid for life and for myself is so in the core of me. How can this be? WD is enhancing everything but if i close my eyes now and think of my parents being death and me standing on my own legs and having a relationship etc etc;..i feel so scared;..to the bone. Seroxat can take away the panic and the anxiety but not this. Cause on paxil i used to drink a lot, spend lots of money, being an arse to friends, turn away intimicy. Panic attacks are a way to ventilate the pain inside. If you remove those; it will flow in other araes. Selfdectruction.

Sorry for this long reply and a bit hijacking of the thread. I am so depressed and scared with this subject last few days.

I am in pain Tex.

[Shiloh1]

As Regina said-nothing is accidental....that is exactly what my 70 year old mother alwasy says and she is a very wise, positive person who has been through a lot on this earth. She always says "you are exactly where you are supposed to be in life".....I am also a person of faith with a strong faith in God and I believe God has me in this situation right now for a purpose....

[dreamer13]

> But what if a part of you doesnt want to get better?

Eckhart Tolle talks about this a lot in The Power of Now. In fact, the main point of the book is that your mind (NOT "you") doesn't want to get better because it only exists when there's problems to solve. You exist apart from the activities of your mind. This is hard to believe, since our society teaches us from day one that mind is everything, and that thinking is the way to solve problems. In fact, you are perfect as you are, right now, and only compulsive thinking prevents you from realizing this truth. You can't and shouldn't stop thinking, but you can stop believing everything you think, and you can create spaces between thoughts in which you can just be. These concepts can't be understood by the logical mind, which will resist them anyway. They can only be experienced by the Observer, which is you, your consciousness or soul. The common way to experience the observer apart from thought is through the practice of meditation. This word intimidates people, but even meditating badly for two minutes can be of benefit.

Sorry if people don't like this approach, but it's actually quite practical, not philosophical. And it helped me immensely, and I think variety of ideas is why people come to Internet forums rather than "authoritative" sources.

[texgirl]

Bilo, I've said this before: anxiety is a disorder of the ego. I know, because I had (have) this, too. Human beings were designed to experience love, happiness, and creativity in addition to pain and despair; this is our universal right, not something only a few select people are entitled to. Those of us who feel unloved or unhappy have somehow deluded ourselves into believing that we're exceptional--that we alone don't deserve what other, "normal" people deserve. Perhaps this is the ego's way of making us feel we've been singled out, set apart and therefore special; I can't speak for you, but I know this has been true in the past for me. I feel your pain, but at some point you have to accept the role that past behavior and faulty thinking plays in this. I'm not saying you should be able to switch it off and "get happy" overnight. When it's been going on for as long as it has for you, it's obviously got its hooks in very deep. But never in a million years would I believe that you don't have the power to change it. I say this from my own experience--over 50 years of it. Even if there is a chemical component to anxiety and depression (which hasn't been proven one way or the other), a huge percentage of it is caused by entrenched behavior (i.e., repetition) based on faulty thinking ("I don't deserve to be happy," "There's no hope for me"), and like any destructive habit, though difficult and painful, it can be changed.

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by texgirl

Bilo, I've said this before: anxiety is a disorder of the ego. I know, because I had (have) this, too. Human beings were designed to experience love, happiness, and creativity in addition to pain and despair; this is our universal right, not something only a few select people are entitled to. Those of us who feel unloved or unhappy have somehow deluded ourselves into believing that we're exceptional--that we alone don't deserve what other, "normal" people deserve. Perhaps this is the ego's way of making us feel we've been singled out, set apart and therefore special; I can't speak for you, but I know this has been true in the past for me. I feel your pain, but at some point you have to accept the role that past behavior and faulty thinking plays in this. I'm not saying you should be able to switch it off and "get happy" overnight. When it's been going on for as long as it has for you, it's obviously got its hooks in very deep. But never in a million years would I believe that you don't have the power to change it. I say this from my own experience--over 50 years of it. Even if there is a chemical component to anxiety and depression (which hasn't been proven one way or the other), a huge percentage of it is caused by entrenched behavior (i.e., repetition) based on faulty thinking ("I don't deserve to be happy," "There's no hope for me"), and like any destructive habit, though difficult and painful, it can be changed.

You said it before but i dont understand everything you mean. I am very tired in my mind right now and this is not my mothertongue. I will read it again tomorrow.
Can you put your pm on tex,...i have some questions tomorrow for you. Perhaps its time i actually start to benefit from your experience.

[aberdeen]

Bilo, in some ways it sounds like you're just scared to get better. I sometimes feel like I'm starting to feel better and it freaks me out. I don't want to feel better if it's going to be taken away from me. And in this world so much can take away our happiness...and right now for me, it's withdrawal crap that steals my joy. So when I feel better i almost want to hide that in case withdrawal sees it and grabs it away again. I'm scared that once withdrawal is over I'll have to work harder on my issues...what if I can't? What if I fail or CBT doesn't work for me? All that stuff, those thoughts, they really are scary, and when you feel like crap, you don't have to face those things. Maybe this is a similar thinking for you. My fear isn't as strong as yours, and I'm able to usually talk myself into more sensible thinking and then it makes my feelings change too. THis you can learn, but I bet therapy would help you a lot. I agree, that faulty thinking can go really deep but it can always be undone with practice.


Shlioh, I too believe God has us exactly where he wants us, He misses nothing, after all we're His precious children, and a great parent like Him never lets his babies out of his sight and only lets things happen (with careful supervision) when they can be of huge benefit for us. I already can tell I will be so much wiser and stronger when this is over. Ontop of being normal again, it'll be like "normal with bonus features" LOL.

[Shiloh1]

Yes! Sort of like we are afraid to feel good again because we have had so much taken from us....like we are always walking on eggshells......BUT i'm sure in time, as we have more consecutive days of normalness, then we will feel confident that we will be fine....ALSO, I think that when this thing is all over and my brain is "clicking" in all the right places, that we will be able to appreciate things that many people take for granted...just think about how amazing it will be to just feel joyful from the sound of your kids' voices.....

[Songbird]

Here are some books for you, Bilo:

"Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway" by Susan Jeffers
"You Can Heal Your Life" by Louise Hay

You are not really abnormal, a lot of people struggle with fears of living, feeling undeserving, self-sabotage and so on. It can be hard to change because a lot of it comes from our subconscious. So awareness is a key step to change. Part of the resistance to change is just that we are more comfortable with what is most familiar to us, even if it is painful. Better the pain we know than the fear of changing to something unknown.

I've come to accept that there are different parts of me with different feelings. The other night I cried just because sometimes it hurts to be alive, even though there was nothing wrong - it seems so strange when there is nothing wrong but still it hurts. But that feeling passed. I've learned here at PP that we are not our thoughts and feelings.

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by aberdeen

Bilo, in some ways it sounds like you're just scared to get better.

This is a really good question to ask yourself. "Am I afraid to get better, and if so, why?" Often, even though we feel stuck and miserable, staying there is less uncomfortable than jumping into the unknown. For some, it may be "easier" to stay in the house and disengaged from life, because it doesn't require anything on their part. Getting better is hard work, and it's scary in that it requires us to extend ourselves, take risks, and get involved in the world from which we've removed ourselves. And this idea can present a lot of resistance. (Again, personal experience speaking.) But the cost of staying stuck is very high.

Originally Posted by aberdeen

I don't want to feel better if it's going to be taken away from me. And in this world so much can take away our happiness...

Of course it can, and of course it will. That's life; external events are always out of our control. The key is to learn to believe and feel that you, the real you, is always safe, that you can handle anything that comes your way. It's called resilience, and it, too can be learned. (But it takes time and practice, and can be especially challenging to those in w/d, whose self-concept is chemically altered. And it's a hard thing to convey in a few lines in an Internet forum without sounding glib or dismissive.)

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by Bilo76

Can you put your pm on tex,...i have some questions tomorrow for you. Perhaps its time i actually start to benefit from your experience.

Done. FYI, the next few weeks are the busiest time of the year for me at work, so it might take a little longer than usual for me to get back to you.

[aberdeen]

Originally Posted by texgirl

This is a really good question to ask yourself. "Am I afraid to get better, and if so, why?" Often, even though we feel stuck and miserable, staying there is less uncomfortable than jumping into the unknown. For some, it may be "easier" to stay in the house and disengaged from life, because it doesn't require anything on their part. Getting better is hard work, and it's scary in that it requires us to extend ourselves, take risks, and get involved in the world from which we've removed ourselves. And this idea can present a lot of resistance. (Again, personal experience speaking.) But the cost of staying stuck is very high.

Of course it can, and of course it will. That's life; external events are always out of our control. The key is to learn to believe and feel that you, the real you, is always safe, that you can handle anything that comes your way. It's called resilience, and it, too can be learned. (But it takes time and practice, and can be especially challenging to those in w/d, whose self-concept is chemically altered. And it's a hard thing to convey in a few lines in an Internet forum without sounding glib or dismissive.)

Good points Tex...and you don't sound glib or dismissive (though my ranting probably helped you feel you're coming across that way, I'm sorry!!) I'm learning just how much we CAN learn in this process. I remember early on, during the time I posted above, when the Dr's weren't on my side and I realized I was alone with is huge problem and had to sink or swim....that I could choose to have hope or decide not to have hope. To realize it was a decision scared me! BUt I realized that i felt less scared when I decided to believe I'd reccover and listen to the success stories here. What else did I have? Nothing! The only other option was to NOT believe I would get better, and that was a hell of a lot scarier than my other options, so i was sort of forced into hope,lol. Hope can be very frightening, there's so much to lose...but the chances of losing it all are the same even if you don't hope...you just feel crappier.

[texgirl]

Thanks for posting that, Aberdeen. I was concerned it might sound like I'm throwing out boilerplate CBT advice like some strip-center quack, which is never my intention. I've even had members PM me saying I shouldn't be giving advice because I have no idea how badly they're suffering. But I've been through a grueling taper and w/d myself, and I know very well how easy it is to feel trapped and terrified and like it will never end; I don't ever want to seem as if I'm not mindful of others who are in that place, too.

Hope is scary--it's asking the universe to give you your life back! But when you do get it, it's exhilirating, too--maybe even more so for those of us who've been down in that dark pit.

[aberdeen]

Tex, your advice is awesome! I know that when I was in the scariest places, I admit CBT advice and positive thinking really made me feel like I was doomed. It made me feel like the ball was in my court and only my own effort and know how would make this go away. That somehow it was all up to me to cure myself, and it was an undertaking I wasn't able to take on, thus I would never recover. I actually had to avoid a lot of posts about that stuff. I wasn't ready, and even now, am not fully ready...though much closer. I needed mostly to hear from others who had a reaction to med switches and w/d and for whom the chaos in the brain finally stopped. I alwasy wonder if others take it the same way when I see posts about self-help and just hope some desperate soul just tried deep breathing for 10 minutes, felt no relief and then dipped into utter despair (like I've done,lol). I also don't know anything about CBT but have learned thru this forum that a lot of my coping skils actually DID use CBT theory all along,lol. Anyway, I can only imagine when I get my life back...I'll be like "Are you freaking kidding me? Me too? I GET TO BE BETTER TOO??? No WAY!!!"