Scotty, Elisa, Defonz3, Silence4now....

[dar7726]

Somebody somewhere was talking about hormones, saliva tests.... etc..

So...for anyone who might have some info...

I went to the natural doc....had a lab test (blood) and it came back that I was high in estrogen...They... the nurse (havent' seen the doc yet) said she recommends getting started on Prometrium...a Progesterone pill... She says its natural .... and it will help with sleep....I'm not so sure about the natural part of this... Don't trust anyone anymore...

Then I called the health show.. (didn't get to ask my full question) he says don't trust the blood test... Saliva is the best bet... And he was leary about taking something like this... Can't remember exactly what he said... cause the show was almost over and it was rushed...

Anyway... what do you all know about the saliva test, (where to get one) he told me again... to quick I can't remember... and it was not a live show so I could not tape it on the VCR... Won't show til 10/29... which is ....After I see the doc...

And what do you know about Prometrium... If anything....or about natural progesterone... if anything...

Thanks in advance for the help
Darlene

[dar7726]

Well, I found another website... where it looks like it is natural...so maybe it's ok... Still want any and all opinions if you have any..

[MizzT]

Hi Darlene
Im not sure i have any info on it. I remember us talking about the saliva tests but i never had any testing done for hormones other than the muscle testing by my naturopath. we did NMT to correct hormone imbalances.

Ive used progesterone cream and that was ok. i didnt keep up with it tho.

sorry i cant be more helpful.
Beverly

[scotty]

This is something I found on the Saliva testing:

Why test saliva?

Because steroid hormones play such a vital role in maintenance of health, knowledge of an imbalance in any one or more hormones can help illuminate the cause of health problems and provide a rational basis for correcting the imbalance through diet, exercise, or hormone supplementation.

Are the levels of steroid hormones in blood and saliva the same? When the various glands manufacture the steroids they are released into the bloodstream bound to carrier proteins. Only a small fraction (1-5%) of a given amount of steroid hormone breaks loose from the carrier protein in the bloodstream and is free to enter target tissues. This free or unbound hormone is what we want to measure, since it is active or bioavailable to the target tissues such as the breast, uterus, brain, and skin.

Many studies in the scientific literature have shown that there is a strong correlation between the levels of steroid hormones in saliva and the bioavailable (free) levels of steroids in the bloodstream. The amount of steroid hormone that enters the salivary ducts and then saliva, is representative of the fraction of steroids in the bloodstream that are bioavailable to other tissues in the body.

Advantages of saliva vs blood testing of steroid hormones Saliva collection is easy, can be done anywhere, any time and at a much lower cost. Serum hormone testing is stressful, and the stress of a blood draw can sometimes alter the result. Blood has to be drawn at a doctor's office or drawing station, and it is more difficult to obtain samples at the desired times (e.g. early am), multiple times through the day or late evening. There is also an extra cost involved in drawing blood, independent of the cost for the test itself.

Hormones in saliva are exceptionally stable, allowing wide latitude in collection and shipment. Samples can be stored at room temperature for at least a week without loss of activity, so samples can be shipped to the testing facility by regular mail. Blood, on the other hand, must be kept cool on ice packs, increasing costs for shipping as well as the likelihood of error due to improper handling

Finally, as outlined in the following section, saliva hormone testing allows you to take more control over your own health. Saliva testing may help you to gain insight into health problems before you see your doctor. It will also allow you to monitor an OTC hormone supplementation program (eg natural progesterone cream or DHEA are widely available at health food stores) if improvement in quality of life, disease prevention, or anti-aging is your goal.

I'll look into the natural supplement more a get back to you.

[dar7726]

Thanks so far for the info.....Laurie, Beverly...


Darlene

[safarigal]

where it looks like it is natural...so maybe it's ok.

I think about it this way. Is it natural to add more hormones to our bodies?
Too much estrogen is bad so what about too much progesterone. And even if it is derived from natural sources, who's to say that its safe? Its like getting too much estrogen from natural sources I think.

I am nervous about putting anything in my body these days. About the only thing I'll take that I trust is tylenol, ibuprophen or aspirin.

[mygoonbaby]

Originally Posted by dar7726

..And what do you know about Prometrium... If anything....or about natural progesterone... if anything...

Thanks in advance for the help
Darlene

Darlene I was on prometrium for quite awhile.. I had all kinds of female problems and finally ended up having to have a hysterectomy in the end (no pun intended) but, the prometrium didn't cause that . I was on hormones and all the progesterones made me have problems heavy post menopausal bleeding,..but my gyno didn't want me taking hormones without progesterone so I tried different kinds of progesterones along with my hormones to try to find one that would not give me so many problems. Prometrium didn't work for me, either, and I still had major bleeding, but then I ended up having a hysterctomy and they found I had severe endometreosis, and all kinds of things wrong that didn't show up on the ultrasounds I had ..the endometriosis had a bunch of my parts all fused together and fused to my bladder.. and all kinds of wierd things, were wrong, it was a miracle I wasn't in alot of pain, but I wasn't in pain at all..so anyways it turned into a bigger surgery than my gyno had planned and took alot longer because things were a real mess.. so I'm sure that is why I had so much trouble with prometrium. But of all the progesterones I tried, I think that one was not so bad.. it did make my heart beat really fast sometimes, but now that I think about it.. back then I didn't know that I was starting to have anxiety, so that is probably what that was instead of the prometrium. I guess this isn't much help ..sorry. But, like I said, I was really messed up then and maybe prometrium would be fine for you. Nowdays, I have to take hormones ofcourse, because of the hysterectomy, but I don't have to take progesterone anymore. Mygoonbaby

[elisa]

Originally Posted by dar7726

Somebody somewhere was talking about hormones, saliva tests.... etc..

Dar - Here you've got a web site for saliva test - Metabolic Profile test and others.

www.usbiotek.com

Just to know - I am waiting for the outcome of the Urinary Metabolic Profile test that I had done some time ago. My doc had to request the test and she will receive the results.

Hope it helps you Darlene.

[hope]

I had the saliva test. It was done by my chiropractor. he said my testosterone was a little low. I was taking progesterone cream given to me by a nurse practitioner so that was pretty high. Go figure. But it was pretty good. I had to spit in this tube during a certain time in my cycle and send it in to a lab.

[silence4now]

Many women become estrogen dominant in pre-menopause. But there is probably some reason for it. Progesterone will only help counteract the dominance of the estrogen.

I did the saliva test too through ZRT labs. You can do it by mail. I don't know anything about the "natural" progesterone you mentioned. I do know that the form is not as important as making sure it is progesterone and not progestin. Many of the "natural" progesterones are derived from wild yam or soy, but not really any more effective than the USP grade of progesterone.

I recommend that you read Suzanne Somers book, The Sexy Years. Or Dr. John Lee's book, What Your Doctor Won't Tell You About Menopause.

Be careful though. I've learned that many of the progesterone treatments are cumulative. You need to retest again in 3-6 months.

[dar7726]

Thanks everyone for you input... I do appreciate it..

What little I do know about estrogen is that our society is more likely in general to be more estrogen dominate.... part of the reason for that is the hormones in our food supply and the Xenoestrogens (which are found in plastics) etc....

So I went looking on mercola.. and found this for anyone who might also be interested....I haven't read the whole thing yet... think I'll print it out and read later... anyway here it is.


Mercola.
What Is Progesterone, Anyway?

Progesterone is the other primary female hormone. It is produced in the ovaries. It is the precursor for both estrogen and testosterone, as well as all other natural steroid hormones (see chart above).

Progesterone's functions are


maintains the endometrium in pregnancy

new bone formation

regulates blood pressure

fat conversion

sugar metabolism

maintaining myelin (nerve insulation)

regulates estrogen production

You'll remember that an egg is presented once a month from the ovaries, wrapped in an envelope called a follicle. After the follicle lets go of the egg, the egg journeys down the Fallopian tubes on its way to the uterus, where it awaits possible fertilization. The burst follicle still has an important job to do: it begins to produce progesterone, for the next two weeks. Progesterone's job is to maintain the uterine lining until one of two things happens:


pregnancy

no pregnancy

If pregnancy occurs, progesterone production is taken over by the developing lining itself - the placenta. The burst follicle simply can't make enough progesterone for the demand, since the uterus will expand from the size of a lemon to the size of a basketball during the next nine months.

If no pregnancy occurs, the follicle stops producing progesterone, which triggers the collapse of the blood-rich lining, which is then expelled as the woman's monthly flow.

So the interplay between these two hormones estrogen and progesterone controls the entire infrastructure of reproduction, on a daily basis, after the onset of menarche (first flow) in adolescence. Estrogen creates the lining each month; progesterone maintains it.

Then what's the problem?

Estrogen Dominance

If estrogen levels get too high, progesterone can no longer keep the dynamic balance. This is exactly what happens in American women. who live their whole adult lives with pathologically high levels of estrogen. Three main reasons for the high levels:


overrefined diet

no exercise

external toxic sources of estrogen : xenoestrogens

Refined carbohydrates, hard fats, empty foods and too much of it all serve to raise estrogen to abnormal levels, as much as twice the normal, which are maintained for the better part of the adult lives of most American women.

Second, lack of exercise. Dr. Ellison of Harvard University found that estrogen levels are much lower in women who eat little and perform strenuous physical work, as in locales with non-industrialized lifestyle.

The opposite is true for the American woman who eats too much and gets little exercise: abnormally high estrogen levels are the direct result. Dr. Lee points out the obvious corollary: menopause is a much bigger deal in our industrialized countries, because the estrogen decline is so radical - the difference between pre and post estrogen levels is significant. This hormonal rollercoaster dip is very stressful, and is the real cause of the discomforts of menopause.

Third, xenoestrogens. Huh? Xeno- means foreign. So the word xenoestrogen just means estrogens from outside the body. Many external toxins have been found to have estrogenlike effects in the body. Most are petroleum derivatives. Xenoestrogens are found in plastics, computer chips, PVC, pesticides, soap, clothes, DDT and other modern manufactured goods.

There has been extensive zoological research in the area of xenoestrogen effects on animals and the resulting birth defects. In studies of panthers, alligators, birds, turtles, seals, fish, and many other species from diverse parts of the globe, scientists are finding a common theme: feminization of males, decreased sperm counts, low male testosterone, and extremely high levels of estrogen in females, with plummeting numbers of offspring.

Though some scientists had known about the problem for several years, public attention was drawn by a series of articles that appeared in three consecutive issues of the LA Times in Oct 1994.

Alligator offspring studied at University of Florida had very high estrogen and low testosterone as a consequence of a large pesticide spill in Lake Apopka near Gainesville. Again, gonad shrinkage was observed in males, leading to a drop in alligator reproduction in the lake estimated at 90% since the spill occurred.

Wild panthers in the Florida Everglades have had their sperm counts reduced by 90%, due to high estrogen levels from years of state dumping of DDT and other toxic pesticides into the swamp waters.

Between 1950 and 1970, some four million pounds of the pesticide DDT, illegal today, was dumped into the ocean in Los Angeles. Examples of eggshell thinning, gonad shrinkage and feminization in males, overdeveloped ovaries in females, and failure to thrive are some of the defects found in seagull studies at UC Davis by Michael Fry. In 1981, Fry published his research in the journal Science. Shrugged off for years by the scientific community, Fry's work is now being corroborated all over the world in dozens of other species.

Males Are Also Affected

Think of the surfing implications for the L.A. spill ... "two girls for every boy"??? Not any more! Declining sperm counts in American males in the past 30 years is well documented. An article in Lancet, May 1993 estimates a drop in sperm count of 50% in the past 30-50 years, and links the decline to environmental estrogen mimickers.

Xenoestrogens, as well as a modern high-fat diet, are lowering the onset of menarche for young girls. In 1900, American girls matured at 14. Today the average age is 12, and for some groups is as early as 8 years old! (Beaton)

The effects of DDT and PCBs are often hidden, and often don't occur until many years later in the offspring of these exposed animals. Birds are born with twisted bills or deformed reproductive organs. Other animals have physical characteristics of both male and female, but can't function normally as either one.

The reason DDT and PCBs were outlawed was that they don't break down; they persist unchanged in the environment for years and years, still capable of the same trauma to living cells. These chemical simply don't degrade.

The effect of hormone-mimicking pollutants, the xenoestrogens, is being kept under wraps, because of its obvious implications for liability by the chemical manufacturers. Chemical contamination is not limited to a few isolated areas. It is a global problem, beyond the scope of this chapter. The reader is directed to Theo Colburn's startling book Our Stolen Future for a better look.

The point is, we are in the same ecosystem, the same food chain, the same biosphere as these animals. Human DNA is 98% identical to that of an ape. Our cells and tissues are susceptible to these same distortions. It is no coincidence that the women of the industrialized nations of northern Europe and the United States have two things in common:


the highest rates in history of breast cancer, endometrial cancer, and HRT consumption

high exposure to plastics, chemicals, computer chips, pesticides and other xenoestrogens

John Lee talks about the "sea of estrogen" in which we exist as the result of many factors:


fat soluble hormones in meat
PCBs (polychlorinated biphenyls)
foaming agents in soap and detergents
tons of pesticides, herbicides
condom spermicides
DDT
cosmetics
plastic cookware
birth control pills
HRT


The pathway of causation is clear: xenoestrogens maintain estrogen levels at double the normal values for the entire adult life of the human female. As the complementary hormone that's supposed to balance the delicate system of sex hormones, progesterone is simply overwhelmed by the dominant estrogens. Natural hormones are subtle and fragile and transient. Xenoestrogens by contrast are harsh and strong and long-lasting. Progesterone just doesn't stand a chance. HRT is just another xenoestrogen, making things worse.

Let's take a look at some of the Consequences Of Estrogen Dominance

As estrogen levels build up to twice the normal level, many systems of the body are adversely affected. Body fat stores increase. Fluids are retained, causing bloating and edema. There are defects in both fat and sugar metabolism, often severe enough to cause diabetes. Risks of endometrial cancer are increased to 5-14 times, as cited in the 1975 NEJM articles above.

Promotion Of Osteoporosis

Slow onset of blood poisoning (toxemia) due to inability of chemical xenoestrogens to be broken down. This in turn obviously contributes to autoimmune disorders like lupus, chronic fatigue, and arthritis, in which the body begins to attack its own cells as they become so toxic that they are unrecognizable as "self."

Alteration of zinc and copper uptake in brain cells causes mood swings, a nice euphemism. Incidence of stroke increases 50% with estrogen, according to an extensive project, known as the Boston Nurses Questionnaire Study, of 121,000 nurses. (Stampfer)

Normal estrogen stimulates breast and endometrial tissue. Excess estrogen causes excess stimulation of breast and endometrial collagen, resulting in fibroids in both locations. (McDougall, p87)

Another health detriment of estrogen is its destruction of B vitamins. Nutritionist Jean Sumption documents the opposition of estrogen with Vitamins B1, B2, B3, B5, B6 and other B-complex vitamins: Biotin, Choline, Folic Acid, PABA, and Inositol. Most functions of cell metabolism depend on B vitamins. Symptoms of depletion include fatigue, sluggish memory, hair loss, and aging.

This Is Only A Partial List

It should be obvious that effects like these are systemic (everywhere the blood goes) and as such can affect practically any weakened tissue in the body. To say that drugs and chemicals cause a downward spiral of health is not just a metaphor.

A growing number of medical researchers (see References) who do not represent the interests of the drug cartels are stepping forward to show that the symptoms of menopause are not caused by too little estrogen, but by too much. To turn popular opinion around 180° from nature and trick American women into thinking that at menopause symptoms and postmenopausal dangers are caused by insufficient estrogen - once again, we are looking at mastery in the control of information. The motivation is simple: $1 billion per year.

Synthetic hormones are not harmless. The side effects of HRT are often the same or worse than the original menopause symptoms they set out to cure.

[dar7726]

Wow what irony... A friend just sent this to me... again it refers to the over abundance of estrogen in the environment..

Fish near treatment plants found with male-female tissue

Sunday October 03, 2004


DENVER (AP) Fish with both male and female sex tissue have been discovered near wastewater treatment plants on the South Platte River and Boulder Creek.

Scientist are trying to determine if chemicals that distrupt hormones, such as estrogen, are responsible for the gender-bending fish phenomenon.

Colorado biologist John Woodling discovered the deformed fish, white suckers, about two years ago near two wastewater discharge pipes. Female fish far outnumber the male fish in the wastewater soup near the plants.

``This is the first thing that I've seen as a scientist that really scared me,'' said Woodling, 58, a retired fisheries biologist with the Colorado Division of Wildlife now working with the University of Colorado.

Woodling and his team are studying the phenomenon with a $100,000 grant from the Environmental Protection Agency.

Scientist haven't pinpointed which chemicals being emitted from the plant might be causing the deformities. However, chemicals known as endocrine disrupters which, mimic or disrupt hormones, especially estrogen, are a leading suspect.

Such chemicals are believed to come from excreted birth-control hormones, natural female hormones, and commonly used detergents that are flushed down toilets and drains.

``We're all concerned about it,'' said Barbara Biggs, Metro Wastewater Reclamation District's governmental officer, who added that the agency supports Woodling's research and other studies into the chemicals. ``We don't want to leap to any conclusions yet. There are a lot of estrogen sources in the environment, and this is going to take time.''

CU professor David Norris, the research project leader, agrees. ``We don't know the dose that produces effects in this species.''

In addition to Denver, the towns of Brighton, Gilcrest, Platteville, the Morgan County Water Quality District and a host of small communities pump their drinking water from shallow aquifers connected to the South Platte. But it is not known whether the chemicals are present in their supplies.

Norris said that over the last 10 years, scientists have documented the impact of endocrine disrupters on everything from British trout to Florida alligators and Arctic polar bears.

Little research has been done on the effects of chronic low-dose estrogen exposure to humans.

[elisa]

Dar - thanks for posting this very intesting article.

Altering the food that we consume is another problem. Just think about the antibiotics and hormones that get added to the live animals and their meats we eat. The chemicals sprays on fruit and vegetables.

In my youth I ate apples and pears very carefully, because one could find a worm in it.....yuk. Looking back, that fruit was organic. Now we've got to pay more to find a worm!

[MizzT]

i JUST read an article this morning about the Estrogen Experiment.
and that the findings of increased risk of cancer way outweigh the benefits of treating with estrogen.
it was termed like the most deadly experiment ever done on women.

I will try to find it and post the link.
My mom was in a study over 10 years. She developed breast cancer during that time.

ZRT Labs is the source I have found most recommended for saliva testing. Christiane Northrup, Who wrote the wisdom of menopause, is an excellent resource and has a good website. just type wisdom of menopause and you 'll find it. The book is an excellent read and is very powerful and positive about cultural impact and reclaiming ourselves and our bodies. She suggests at least two tests I believe 6 mths apart.