Need help with this anxiety problem please

[Bilo76]

Hey sorry to bother everybody again. But i am puzzling with one thing and perhaps anyone recognizes it.
I went on paxil for agoraphobia. So i got panic attacks when i was in the supermarket, far away from home or open areas. When i went on paxil it didnt all go away. It got lesser but still i had to go through my fears with CBT. I remember walking first 100 meters, then 200 meters etc etc and when i was scared; i kept on walking.
Now since i stopped with paxil i have WD symptoms. A lot of IBS (i feel like a pregnant woman instead of a slim guy), DP/DR, depression, anger, fear (i feel like a little child that has lost his mama on the beach lol). Now since i stopped completely my old problem is returning. Not the open area agoraphobia,....but since i started tapering i got dizzy, hyperventilating and burning nerves every time i went to the supermarket and was in line for the cashier or when i was speaking with her. I also have it when i speak to people for longer then 2 minutes (so social anxiety).
Today for the first time in many years i actually got a panic attack when i was talking to the cashier. It is humiliating,..i was shaking, burning, sweating etc etc. Now for my questions after this long intro LOL:

1.) I dont fear panic attacks anymore. I think thats why i dont have agoraphobia anymore with or without meds. I am 100% convinced that the heartpain, sweating, hyperventilating, manicing me;...well that it cant hurt. That i wont die or get mentally crazy. It will get over. And since i truly believe that, it hasnt happened to me anymore. Not to that degree. But apparently its different with social anxiety. And i find it very hard to beat. Because if you ask me;..i dont give a ratsass what that 16year old cashier thinks of me. I dont care what people in the line think of me, besides that a shakey me is a bit humiliating.
.But apparently my subconscious thinks otherwise. Cause every time it gets harder. I am not avoiding it cause i now it will get harder then. But like now i cant speak to friends, a gaspomp cashier, supermarkt cashier, my neighbour etc etc without getting dizzy and full of anxiety and it builds up to the point i feel like fainting. And i have NO IDEA how to beat this. Off course its cognitive behaviour. If i was missing a hormone in my brain i would have it all the time and not only in these situations. So CBT should help. But i have done so much CBT in the past. And the problem is that i dont think or feel anything. I am not thinking, like i was with agoraphobia, "i hope i wont die now" or "everybody is looking at me" or "its important the girl at the desk likes me". I could correct those ideas. But i dont think anything. Only thing perhaps is that i dont like to return to the shops and social contacts cause i am afraid it will happen again. So i am anticipating it. But i still go anyway. So how to beat this? It is difficult for me and it keeps increasing. When i was doing my agoraphobia walks i ignored the fear and anxiety and talked to myself and even when i was shakey, almost fainting and i had such a sweaty body that it looked like i took a swim;..i just keep walking.
But with this social anxiety its harder. Cause already 20 times a friend or cashier has asked me "everything ok? you look pale, you are shaking, is everything fine?". I know i am not going to die, faint or anything like that from those panic attacks,..so that thought is good in my brain. But what is causing this then? Am i anticipating and fearing it so much that i keep evoking it over myself? Please help me
2.) My psychiatrist says this is my original problem. He doesnt believe in WD to this extend. While for me dizziness, headache, DR is clearly WD. But maybe some stuff i thought to be WD is my old problem returning. If you often have anxiety;..well IBS, DP, burning nerves and a destructive scary way of thinking is a logical follow up. How does one know what is WD anxiety and what is the original anxiety?
For people that are long past there taper and also took paxil for anxiety to begin with;..was this the same for you? Did your original problem return in WD? And did it become less after WD?

[rangerNY]

Originally Posted by Bilo76

Only thing perhaps is that i dont like to return to the shops and social contacts cause i am afraid it will happen again. So i am anticipating it.

Don't underestimate this.

Fully accepting that you won't die or be harmed (good job on that!) doesn't mean there's no fear at all. When your body goes into high anxiety/panic mode, there's going to be fear, even if you can't imagine what it is you're afraid of. Its "chemical" fear with nothing to attach itself to, but fear nonetheless. My suggestion is to shift your focus a bit.

You've gotten past the fear that you might be in real danger, so now you have to fully accept the presence of baseless fear just in and of itself. Its really unpleasant and the natural physical reaction is to want to escape even when you know there's nothing to escape from. So, try shifting your focus from "I know I'm not going to die" to "I acknowledge that my body is trying to get me to escape from something, so I'll just relax and it will pass in a few minutes."

Does that make sense?

[Bilo76]

Drew,

I am having a horrible day and its late in the evening now. I dont know what it is but i am having trouble thinking. Your reply triggers more questions for me. But i can not formulate them. I am so depressed, scared and tired. I need to take it easy tonight

Sorry to bother you but could you check this thread tomorrow or day after? I will have a better reaction then. I think you can really help me figure this out.

thanks in advance

[iwantpeace]

Hi Bilo,

I hope you read this when you're feeling better. I think your CBT mind is doing great. I have a suggestion, and this is a suggestion that my psychologist gave me and I thought I would share it.

There is NO shame in having an anxiety disorder - so many people have them. How about next time you panic and someone asks 'are you ok' or says 'you are pale' just simply respond 'Yes, i'm ok. I'm just having a panic attack. I'll be fine'. Nobody will judge you, and if they do then eff them. They're not worth your time. I've become so much more open about my anxiety disorder since last year, and while I hope it helps to raise awareness, it also helps me deal with things.

I hope you feel better soon. There is no adversity in this world that is permanent. You will get through this.

[nickels]

Bilo...take some deep breaths. In through the nose for 4 counts...out of the mouth, thru persed lips for 8. Do this a few times and try to relax a bit.

Where you are right now, sounds exactly like me when I was first off meds. I never had this type of social anxiety before and I don't now. I only had it at the very worst of my withdrawal. SO I do think this will pass for you, I dont think its your original problem.

In the meantime, you are living it now and need to deal...sooo, its great that you realize and understand that you are not in any danger. Also, that you aren't worried about what the other person thinks...thats great. These are really key. However, I do think you are anticipating the feelings and subconsciously bringing them on. Like Drew has mentioned, at some level we all want to escape feeling uncomfortable. I think your super sensitive state of withdrawal is impacting your ability to not add the "second fear".

You are approaching this the correct way, by continuing to "practice" these situations. And, again, like Drew has said, maybe trying to approach these situations in a different light may help.

Accepting these feelings and letting them pass or float over you is another option. I know when someone asked me "are you ok? you look pale"...I'd start freaking inside. How I dealt with it was basically to fake it. I'd say "yeah I'm great"...and I'd relax my posture...stop tensing my neck, ease my clenched hands...and sure enough, my body would follow suit and the panic would roll over me.

Once you do this a few times, you become a bit invinsible...it feels so great to have the panic peak and then just go away. Its a bit harder, in the state of WD you are in...but things will get easier.

Keep faking it until you believe it! Please try it next time

[Bilo76]

Thanks guys. I have had some terrible days, so havent seen anybody.
Tomorrow i will go to the store and try your tips. Also i will write down what my fears and thoughts are exactly. I say i dont fear anything but there must be something. Anticipating is a bad think and can evoke panic earlier,..but there must be a trigger,..a series of not helping thoughts.

At least that's the way it was for me with agorafobia. I thought i didnt think anything,...and i was afraid for the panic attack so i was also anticipating it. And i ran back when it hit me,..i was so scared.

But later i realized i had some thoughts,..but where very hard to identify. I thought "i am to far away from home, if something happens now i cant reach my home in time"..and "i am afraid to die, i am all out in the open and stuff can happen to me" and also "..if i now fail and get panic again, i will keep failing".

I conquered those thoughts,...but there must be some other thoughts that frighten me now with the cashiers and with friends.

I will try to find them and write them down. And hopefully Drew and pthers can help me find a way to counter that. I am way deep in WD now (my parents wanted to bring me to the hospital today, they were so worried) so i dont know if i can beat it now,..time needs to pass. But its always good to start with CBT i guess

thanks in advance

[nicole55]

Don't know if this story will help you in any way or not ,just think it's interesting.

Several years back I had a car accident on the freeway. I had just finished going into a curve in the road, and my car hydroplaned (it was raining). I had no control,the car spun around completely and went across 3 lanes where a small bus hit me in slow lane and knocked me up onto the shoulder. The accident itself was not bad. But it was mentally horrifying as it did seem to take forever/slow down, and I thought I was going to die. I was not injured. The car did have some pretty good damage, which amounted to being rearended by the bus. Luckily spinning around slowed the car way down.

Anway ever since then, when I'm on the freeway and I go into a curve in the same direction as the accident, I freak out. Now in the beginning , right after the accident, I understood it. But this is years later, and it's like my mind/body just remembers it, I'm not thinking about it all. I just get tense, I have to slow way down often. I breathe different. Gripping the steering wheel. Of course I hate to drive in the rain on the freeway too, or when it's windy,and I feel like I don't have as much control of the car.

So I don't have an answer for you, but the mind /body are strange and they do remember intense events. Maybe you aren't even that fearful of the events anymore from learning techniques BUT body remembers that you ares SUPPOSED to be that way. That's the way you were before. It's like an auto response/habit now. If that makes sense. Only way to beat it is keep doing it/exposing yourself to you learn a different auto response. I keep driving on the freeway and it is much better than the first year after the accident. But it has not completely gone away, and that was just one incident. Weird huh?