Cortisol Level "Extremely High"

[sheacarney]

Hi all,

I just got back, from the endocrinologist. She says my cortisol levels are "extremely high," and has referred me to a psychopharmacologist because she thinks it's caused by a severe serotonin deficiency. NO! The doctor wanted me to "promise" to see the psychopharmacologist, so this condition does not "ruin my life." She is aware that the condition was not extant, prior to Paxil use, and came to be, by way of it, but says the condition is bad enough that it warrants treatment. I can hardly wait to see what the psychopharmacologist suggests. She does believe that I had "sensitive adrenals," hence it could have cause the "paradoxical," adverse reactions I had to Paxil, but she's not sure which came first; sensitive adrenals, prior to Paxil, or injured adrenals, due to Paxil. Now it's time to play guinea pig, again. This psychopharmacologist will basically study me, I surmise. He's not exactly in "the network." I have to pay for this, out of pocket. This doctor sees patients who have reacted "atypically" to SSRIs, according to my endocrinologist. Well, he should have a hey-day, with me.

I guess I'm seeing the right set of doctors, though, if there is such a thing. I ran into Tom Hanks, coming off the elevators, on my way to the garage.

I feel like a GSK statistic.

-Shea

PS - She said she's not referring me to a psychiatrist because, CLEARLY, the source of my depression/anxiety is biological in nature. She says talk therapy ain't gonna help.

[RR]

Originally Posted by sheacarney

she thinks it's caused by a severe serotonin deficiency. NO! The doctor wanted me to "promise" to see the psychopharmacologist, so this condition does not "ruin my life."

Good God....

[sheacarney]

Yes, Rob, that's how I feel.

Scott, does this whole elevated cortisol, adrenal gland injury issue sound familiar? I suspect that many of us are having elevated cortisol issues.

For those of you who haven't, check out the link "Surviving an SSRI reaction," in Scott's signature.

-Shea

[dar7726]

Again with what Dr. Tracy says:

One single dose of Prozac doubles cortisol levels. Which is very damaging to both the body and brain. Increased cortisol levels are known to cause brain damage as well as all kinds of physical damage.

Keep in mind that we know that one single 30 mg dose of prozac given to someone who's never taken it before and who may never take it again. Just one single 30 mg dose will double the body's level of cortisol. Cortisol is the hormone that designates when the body is in stress. When an individual is in stress the cortisol level goes up. The doubling of the cortisol level with one dose of prozac is a shockingly powerful negative effect on the entire system. She says she is convinced that this huge increase in cortisol comes from the stress neuro hormone, seratonin. She thinks she will see even higher levels on the newer AD's, exp paxil.

With this in mind we see that the body suffers extreme stress as a result of these seratonergic AD's, in fact most people after being on these drugs show all the signs of post traumatic stress syndrome. Stress is very detrimental to the body, as is cortisol.


Darlene

[scotty]

OK, what am I missing here?? SSRI's CAUSE elevated cortisol levels!! Why in God's name would she recommend a psychopharmacologist??? Elevated serotonin causes increased cortisol. I'm totally confused with her rationale.

[Scott]

i can't understand why your cortisol levels are still high though..

[scotty]

I don't think she's been off paxil long enough for the cortisol to be down yet. I know Ryan didn't see any weight loss until recently, which is usually an indicator that the cortisol is dropping off. It can take a year!

[Scott]

that's why it's important not to take too much to heart that the doctor tells you to do right off the medication.. i'd be on 10mg of lexapro if i listened to mine.

[scotty]

Speaking for myself I find I can't take ANYTHING that they say to heart!! Very sad considering my profession!

[Scott]

i'll bet they just love you

[scotty]

I believe that I'm called honest, scathingly honest!!!(that was the actual wording used on a recommendation letter that I got!)

[MizzT]

Originally Posted by scotty

scathingly honest!!!

you should be incredibly proud of yourself laurie!!!

[elisa]

Shea - just make sure that you are not being put again on antidepressants by this doc.

I had pharmacotherapy appointments with my previous psychiatrist who was just like any other psychiatrist....... a ligit drug pusher for AD's and others.

Just be careful Shea!!

PS: I did find out that this 'parmacotherapy' is just a fancy name for med(s).

[MicheleT]

Did Tom Hanks look sick?

Anyway, Shea I would steer clear of anymore stuff for your poor body to cope with. Sounds like another 'stab in the dark' treatment.

[sheacarney]

Tom Hanks looks like Tom Hanks. :-)

I am either on my way to healing or adrenal fatigue. The latter would be very detrimental to my health. With adrenal fatigue, as quoted in Scott's signature literature, the adrenals produce too much adrenaline, in my case, as the result of SSRI use. After a period of time, the adrenals stop producing so much adrenaline and things such as rapid heart rate abate, to some extent, however, cortisol levels remain elevated. Eventually, cortisol levels begin to drop, as well. When this happens, adrenal fatigue has set in, and, as my lovely doctor put it, "your adrenals never fully recover from this." I had many a horrible reaction to Paxil, but was stuck because of the horrible withdrawal. My heart stopped racing, a month and a half ago, yet my cortisol levels are still soaring. Adrenal fatigue inevitable? Will my cortisol levels drop too low? Am I healing? I have no clue and my depression makes it VERY hard to take a positive stance. What I am hoping is that the 3-18 months it takes to recover from an "ssri reaction" is the time it takes to recover proper adrenal function.

I won't be taking any more SSRIs. I fear I may lose this fight.

-Shea

[MicheleT]

You won't lose the fight. Because your're questioning. Yes, the adrenal levels have dropped but don't think your body isn't capable of healing it's self. For every drug you put in your body there will be a action right? What worries me now is the reaction. To fix up adrenal levels what type of drug does that. It has to be hormonal. Right? Maybe someone else can help who knows more about these things.

I'm trying to let my body take control of it's healing. It did it before paxil and now it can do it again. Give it time.

[angels]

Originally Posted by scotty

OK, what am I missing here?? SSRI's CAUSE elevated cortisol levels!! Why in God's name would she recommend a psychopharmacologist??? Elevated serotonin causes increased cortisol. I'm totally confused with her rationale.
__________________
Speaking for myself I find I can't take ANYTHING that they say to heart!! Very sad considering my profession!

Originally Posted by silence4now

I'm no doctor, but this is my hunch. Paxil withdrawal sets off a stress related inflammatory response in the system that causes the body to produce more adrenaline and cortisol. Elevated cortisol will litertally knock you on your butt for a reason. The body needs to heal.

Taking cortisol blockers and supplements to reduce cortisol will not solve the problem. This will only mask the problem. You have to change diet and routine to slowly and gradually reduce with the stressors that increase the cortisol.!

Originally Posted by sheacarney

I have no clue and my depression makes it VERY hard to take a positive stance.
I won't be taking any more SSRIs. I fear I may lose this fight.

Shea,
I know this is hard when you are in the middle of it all. It is irresponsible and harmful and inaccurate for a medical professional to say that if xy happens, then there is no recovery. If I had listened to the medical professionals in my life, I wouldn't be alive to type this letter to you. The body heals with time. With what you have learned about good health and natural healing, you will be in the best health of your life post Paxil withdrawal.

The first thing to do is get away from the doomssayers. Align yourself with someone who sees that you will triumph and prevail. Whether you go to a traditional medical person or natural healer person, make sure it is one who is willing to work with the body's natural inclination to heal. That's how the body is made. Listen to those you trust. Take heart from those here who have either healed or have family members who have healed. They are the beacon of truth. You are not a burden to your family. They may not understand what you are going through, but they will not feel so helpless if they know that you are trusting in their love. There is nothing more powerful or healing for you and them.

I don't know how possible this is for you right now, but there are some tried and true methods for creating an environment for the body to access its own natural healing processes. Long before the West co-opted and watered down wisdom from the East, many practiced methods such as mediation and yoga to quiet all the mental chatter that clouds the mind and compromises the natural healing abilities of the body. When I am agitated, meditation does not work as well as yoga. I understand the value and use of the term, "balance the brain," but EEGs of longtime meditators (Buddhist monks) show the Eastern and Western hemispheres perfectly balanced; there is no doubt in my mind that their neurotransmitters are balanced and happy as well. I say this only to suggest that the very process of seeking opinions from various medical professionals may be adding more stress than reassurance or even medical accuracy.

Even if meditating or yoga is too difficult to do right now, take heart in the words of people like Rob Robinson who is holding the lantern and turning around to light your way. Sit in a quiet place and let the light of that lantern wash over you.
Peace.
Angela

[Buxy`s Back]

shea its bakk to tyhe hormone crap again i neva had anxiety or panic b4 i discovereed i was in the menopause at 28 but insted of hormonal help they gave me seroxat iv had 6 years of hell since .upto the withdrawal i had 8 good months because my new gp gave me the estrogen i was lackin no panic no anxiety at all.i would say if u can stay away from doctors they have messed my life up for 6 years makin assumptions without tests and just sayin i was too young to have hormone problems ye right!!!i am going through the same crap but aint no doctor putting me on any more crap that will hinder my recovery and yes im scared too im damaged but hey im willing to see for myself what happens good luck thinking of you .

[silence4now]

Originally Posted by sheacarney

I just got back, from the endocrinologist. She says my cortisol levels are "extremely high," and has referred me to a psychopharmacologist because she thinks it's caused by a severe serotonin deficiency.

It makes sense to me that your serotinergic system is not functiioning properly. Didn't your "edge" test reveal a serotonin deficiency? I had very high cortisol in the beginning, which would have been when my body was screaming for more serotonin. No matter how much is in there, if the system is not working, then it's not available to you.

But the question is why after all these months is this still going on with you? Your body is not regulating itself. Could it be the other prescription drugs that are preventing that?

I read an interesting study the other day about 5 HTP and L-tryptophan. Seems that L-tryptohan is more useful in hellping the brain manufacture more serotonin rather than controlling uptake, while 5 HTP works more in the gut. Another interesting tidbit, serotonin in the brain and serotonin in the gut do not cross over the blood-brain barrier. So what is manufacturerd by the brain stays in the nervous system, and what is manufactured in the gut stays in the gut/circulatory system.

[RR]

Shea the level of knowledge you have gained about Paxil and withdrawal while actually going through it is formidable. As time goes by you'll consolidate this knowledge base and will, I believe, be able to "reach back" and help others.

On to "cortisol and adrenaline." Around January of 03' I think it was I began having adrenalization, chest wall spasms, seizures, borderline convulsions. But no heart racing problems. All of this was so horrific, intense and sustained I was on the verge of a traumatic breakdown after several months of this -- during which time all of the symptoms got worse and worse. I felt like a character come to life in a Stephen King horror novel. This all came as an add on to all the horrific, intense and sustained withdrawal symptoms I had been experiencing previously. Ultimately, I ended up on a regimen of one milligram of lorazepam every eight hours. Over a period of weeks this brought the chest seizures under control. (Lorazepam, I found out later, has anti-spasmodic qualities.) Lorazepam also blunted my extreme sound sensitivity problems and muted my adrenalization problems. Had all of this continued unabated I don't know if I could have survived much longer in spite of my tremendous will and fierce determination. It was a hell stacked on top of a dozen hells I had already lived through. I believe the chances of anyone else making it as far as I had were in the millions to one odds.

A few months thereafter I began an extremely conservative taper off lorazepam, but had to resume an increased dosage on one or two ocassions due to a resurgence of chest seizures/convulsions. Finally though, I transitioned onto a beta blocker drug called Inderal which was succesful at keeping the adrenalization at bay, and with it the subsequent and attendant seizures/convulsions. I ended up taking ten milligrams approximately every eight hours for many months.

But several months back, and out of the blue, I had a major resurgence of chest wall seizures/convulsions and had to go back on lorazepam for a very brief time to beat them back down. (This was somewhat demoralizing since it had been so long since I had experienced this and thought they were gone forever. It seemed like a set back.) At the same time I restarted a half mg. of lorazepam every eight hours as I continued taking Inderal, and my dose of the latter drug was doubled. I titrated off lorazepam after a few weeks.

But not long afterwards and unbeknowst to my physician I made a decision to titrate off Inderal to see if I might be able to get off it. Over a period of several weeks I worked on this, during which time I experienced more chest problems. On one ocassion -- during a vigorous yoga class -- they struck with a severity such that I thought my life my might actually be in danger -- I felt like I was about to faint or collapse on the floor, and that my chest was going to blow apart like an engine revving at high speed with no oil. This was not a panic attack, but instead purely phyisiological. And again, it did not feel like my heart was racing. The prudent thing to have done would have been to leave class, and possibly even gone to the hospital emergency room, but instead I decided to slow my practice down and the symptoms eased up a bit.

I continued my titrate off Inderal and as of just a few weeks ago I am no longer taking the drug on a daily basis, but instead "spot treating" here and there by taking an ocassional ten milligrams. I am still expereincing some stuff going on in my chest, but nothing that seems to be ramping up in intensity. Just periodic tremors in an earthquake zone. I'm hopeful....

Also, about a month ago I also slowly started back onto caffienated coffee in the morning and my system seems to be able to tolerate it. I did this because I have "core energy problems" -- I just seem to be unable to regain the same energy level I had before I began my Paxil withdrawal. I think this is because withdrawal took a HUGE bite out of me. It lasted for so long, was so intense and so horrifying that it just left me with a residual core exhaustion I can't seem to shake. I am 44 years old, but I feel like withdrawal artificially aged me.

The good news is in spite of everything I feel great! as a person. Withdrawal mauled and mutilated me -- "like a piece of tissue paper sucked into a lawnmower blade" -- but after having been "blown out the other side" I have managed to regain my general sense of optimism and well being. Yes, LOL, life is drastically different now, but I feel o.k. Indeed, I look forward to getting up everyday, and doing whatever it is I do. Just ...being alive and having survived withdrawal is a daily blessing.

By sharing this with you in the context of this thread I hope I can give you a "look ahead" down the withdrawal road if you are dealing with these cortisol/adrenaline problems. If my experience serves as any sort of guide, then eventually your body's chemistry should slowly work to reset itself to an approximation of the state it was in prior to the extreme trauma of withdrawal survival. Just hang in there and keep pressing forward. But don't press to hard ... let the passage of time do the heavy lifting.

[angels]

That was a great post, Rob. Did you keep a journal of your withdrawal that is this detailed?

I look forward to the day when you and Scotty question a GSK executive and it is run on a news program like Primetime Live. I would put a smiley face here, but I am quite serious.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by angels

That was a great post, Rob. Did you keep a journal of your withdrawal that is this detailed?

I look forward to the day when you and Scotty question a GSK executive and it is run on a news program like Primetime Live. I would put a smiley face here, but I am quite serious.

Oh, wouldn't that be interesting!!!

[RR]

Originally Posted by angels

I look forward to the day when you and Scotty question a GSK executive and it is run on a news program like Primetime Live. I would put a smiley face here, but I am quite serious.

Or how about Terry Bradshaw and I go toe to toe on Larry King Live? Truth is I have serious doubts anyone from GSK will ever see the inside of a courtroom, much less end up being interviewed or appearing on anything like PrimeTime. After all, rats live in sewers, and it's hard to coax them out of their natural habitat.

That said, I may be wrong. Let's see what happens come May 2nd, 2005 (about six weeks from now) which is when the first Paxil withdrawal trial is set to go. GSK is incredibly arrogant and defiant, so maybe they'll decide to go for it.

I gotta go fix a cup of coffee....