Pushing the Limit

[Dottie]

Pushing my limits will it help or harm??

I'm so terrified to go out to do anything and when I get back I have a total melt down with crying and wailing while on the floor. Is this hurting me or should I carry on? If I continue to do this everyday will I be harming myself? I have sat in my chair (my safe zone) for about a year now waiting for the urge to do anything but it hasn't happened, and I think it will only get worse if I continue to sit here. I need to do something pro-active. I have gone out but really didn't want to. I am afraid that if I don't do something or face these fears I won't get better. After a melt down I feel absolutely drained and will sob for one or two hours.

What are your thoughts on the melt downs, do you think they are harmful? Does anyone have any suggestions, ideas, or what worked for someone who has gone through the same thing? How did you deal with it? I can barely hold myself togeather while I am out in public but just barely, everything seems so alien to me, I know they are unjustified fears but they are driving me crazy.

I need some replies, help and ideas from you guys.

Hugs Dottie

[scotty]

Dottie, on of the accepted methods that psychologist's have of dealing with fear is desensitization. Repetativeness is an absolute must for this to work. Daily repeating of the same actions, no matter how small, will slowly take the fear out of that situation. No timeline, just keep repeating the action until the fear is replaced by acceptance. So I don't think that just sitting back at this point in the safe zone is going to move you forward much. Small steps, repeated day after day until your comfortable with that action.. then add another action.

[rdjanis]

I agree Dottie, you don't go out for a few hours, but in small bouts at a time, increase it slowly weekly. It worked for my child, took a while.... but it worked.

[soulgalgirl]

Hi Dottie,

I think it's like that thread on self nurturing. You can't just sit in a chair forever and wait for an urge to do something. The urge may never come. By practicing to consciously do 1 or 2 simple things, (without the urge at first - you must plan the action) you can begin to win this battle.

Doing the things will not hurt you. Having the meltdown afterward will not hurt you. But how about a little positive self talk? (Even if you have to start it during a meltdown at first)

If you're trying to develop the activity of getting out of the house once in awhile, why not plan to do something nice for yourself. Something small. Whatever it might be. Venturing to the store to get a well deserved ice cream? Buying yourself some flowers from a sidewalk vendor? Something along those lines.

Then, when you get home - before the meltdown - consider some praise. You DID it, Dottie!! How about giving yourself some credit where credit is due?
(sung to the tune of Frosty The Snowman - the 'thunkity thunk thunk, look at Frosty go' part)
"Positive self talk
Positive self talk
Look at Dottie go!" :-)

See, if we wait until we 'feel' like doing something nice for ourselves, we'll never do it. Gotta start setting a time to 'do it' whether we 'feel' like it or not. Feelings don't just happen, especially after our feelings have been through the mill of medications and withdrawal. Feelings (at first) have to be 'generated.'

So start with some positive self talk. Positive affirmations. Start with, "I'm doing the best that I can at this time." Say it over and over. When you get bored, change the tone and/or the rhythm of it. "I'm doing the best that I can at this time." After a bit, start injecting some pride into your voice. "I'm doing the best that I can at this time. (and I'm bloody well proud of it.)

If you have a meltdown - so what? Don't punish yourself for it! Finish the meltdown, and then remember, "You're doing the best that you can at this time." Do it for days, weeks, months however long it takes for you to actually 'feel' like you are doing the best that you can.

Set a time, a schedule for doing SOMETHING everyday, that is self nurturing. Do NOT wait until you 'feel' like it. Go get that ice cream, or those flowers, or visit that park, or take that stroll by the river. Do it for YOU! Even if, ESPECIALLY if you don't 'feel' like it. You are not going to wait until you feel like it. You are just going to do it. And guess what, Dottie? Eventually, and before you know it, you WILL feel like it. The 'feeling' that you have been sitting and 'waiting' for will have been generated.

And who generated that feeling, Dottie? YOU did. Nope. Nope. No meltdown. You did it, Dottie, and it's time to take credit for it.

Positive self talk
Positive self talk
Look at Dottie go... :-)

[rc1904]

Hi Dottie,
Just like Laurie and Rita said... This is what I did. It was definitely hard to do and I was so exhausted when I got home I'd have to take a nap! But I think this is really what got me through that time. I made myself get out of the house and I realized that all the pain and fear I felt was the paxil withdrawal--not me. After repeated trips out, my brain finally adjusted to the light, sound, movement, etc. Just be prepared to deal with the discomfort--wear sunglasses, avoid very loud sounds, go to a park and then build up to going someplace like a mall. You can do it, have courage.

[feelin'_wiggy]

Hey Dottie,

I just want to echo what everyone else has said. You have to take some initiative and go with it. Set one small goal each day and complete it. That's it. You're done for the day. You can stay in your safe zone for the rest of the day without guilt, shame or fear. Make the goal something that makes you feel good.


It doesn't have to involve leaving the house. Start with things you can do at home. You might start by giving yourself a manicure and pedicure one day. The next day give yourself a facial and then try a new make-up look. Play dress-up one day and try on your favorite, dressiest clothes. If that's not your thing, think about what does make you feel good and practice doing it for a little while each day. Whatever your interests are, find a related TV show for inspiration, like something on HGTV or the Food Network. Then turn off the TV, turn on the music and do something. Do you like plants? Get a few new houseplants and arrange them in pretty pots. Cooking? Bake a cake or something easy, creative and fun. Your husband can get the things you need for you. Remember, start with just one goal a day. These are the things that have helped me.

You'll never feel good outdoors until you feel happy indoors, and I know you are fearful of being alone even within your house right now. But, Dottie, one of the best ways to make the rooms in your house feel safe again is to do something enjoyable in them.

Personally, I'm still uncomfortable leaving the house or even talking on the phone, so I'm not pushing myself too hard in that direction yet. I'm concentrating on feeling good in private, and I'll re-emerge into the world when I'm ready.

I've also started daily laugh therapy. "Curb Your Enthusiasm" on HBO is one of the funniest shows I have ever seen. There is no way I can have that on TV and not laugh. Couldn't if I tried. There are millions of comedies on TV and video. Find something that is simply hilarious to you and watch it everyday.

The best way to explain the approach I'm taking is to compare it to caring for a sick loved one. I'm at my best when I'm caring for the ones I love. But I have never been good at accepting care from others, especially myself. Well, now I am doing nice things for me and learning to accept it.

If one of my loved ones was healing from a serious illness, I wouldn't push him too hard, but I also wouldn't allow him to wallow in self-pity. In nursing him back to health, I would encourage him to get out of bed and sit in a chair for a while, then start to get dressed each day and spend more and more time out of bed. Gently, I would push him to do more for himself, knowing that I'd always be there to help if he needed me. On the same token, I would dote on him and cook his favorite foods or bring him little gifts and treats.

Try to think of it that way. How would you care for your husband or child if one of them was sick? Then put yourself in the place of the loved one and take care of Dottie. It takes a little creative thinking, but soon you will be smiling in spite of yourself.

[feelin'_wiggy]

Maybe I should add a note about leaving home. I don't have the severe reaction that you do, Dottie, but I'm cerainly not happy being in public yet. One reason is that I'm very uncomfortable talking with people because I have trouble speaking. I stumble over my words or can't recall the proper word I need to express myself. Since communication skills are my strong point, this is an exceptionally painful problem for me. My self-confidence suffers a terrible blow when I cannot conduct a free flowing conversation. However, I do make an effort to go out at least a few times a week. And I really surprised myself Saturday morning when I spent over two hours in Whole Foods and found myself conversing easily with the employees. Man, was I exhausted when I got home. But, that was okay. I accomplished my goal for the day.

After my nap, I was so excited about the book, magazine, dvd, supplements, and healthy food that I bought for ME that this is what I did. I prepared a little home "spa", turned on "Soundscapes" music, took a long soak in L'Occitane Verbena bath foam and Epsom salts, read a magazine then rested my eyes with a gel mask. scrubbed my whole body with my new loufa mitt, and followed wth a cold shower (Sorta. In July, the tapwater in New Orleans comes out lukewarm.) Afterwards, I did 30 minutes of yoga and pilates (the very basic stuff). Just Thursday, I was feeling so awful I didn't want to get off of the sofa. But when I began to feel a little better on Friday, I decided that I would try to make the trip to Whole Foods on Saturday. That morning, I didn't feel like going, but I did. And the rest was gravy.

Well, I'm yawning now. Time for me to finish my second leg of sleep. I hope some of this helps you Dottie. Please be of good cheer, Dottie This will pass.

[Dottie]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I sort of figured that getting out and about was the answer but the melt downs had me concerned as I wasn't sure if they were harmful or not. I think I will take everyones advise and start scheduling some small trips outside and short trips to one or two stores at a time. It won't be easy but I have to start somewhere to get past this.

Thanks Again

Hugs Dottie

[damama]

Dottie,

I understand how you feel. I used to have EXTREME agoraphobia years ago. I was helped by a family member who was able to help me take it one step at a time. First we'd go out in the front yard. We'd do this several times a day until I felt comfortable--mastering the task. Then we'd sit in the car together, eventually driving around the block; then the neighborhood; then the grocery store. It was one of the most difficult things I ever had to endure but I did it with help. Eventually we'd go into the grocery store together. I remember feeling terrified and angry at the same time. I thought I would just lose control. I never did. I took a good deal of time but I eventually could go into store for short trips by myself. If anxiety has this tight of a grip on you and has for a long time, I would recommend cognitive behavioral therapy (to change your stress response) coupled with medication. There's so much that has yet to be learned about anxiety disorders, however, the more they learn the more this 'condition' crosses over into the biological/medical realm. Medication is there to serve as an aid to therapy so that treatment can be successful. Hugs to you, my friend. I know first hand what you're feeling. You're not alone.

[damama]

I forgot to mention a wonderful book called "The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook" by Edmund J. Bourne. This is the best book I've ever read/owned/used for dealing with anxiety/agoraphobia.

[Dottie]

Damama,

This is not a long standing issue. I never even had a tiny bit of this before tapering off paxil, never had before taking paxil. I was always very outgoing, running all over town with my friends and busy before I ever took paxil. I didn't take paxil for any anxiety or panic reason. I was given paxil for mild situational depression, thats all. My mom was ill and I was taking care of her until she died which brought on the depression and stress. This feeling is totally new and alien to me since tapering off paxil. If this was something I had to face all my life I would know how to cope with it, I have no clue what to do about it, it's totally new to me.

Thanks for your reply.

Hugs Dottie

[angels]

Originally Posted by damama

I forgot to mention a wonderful book called "The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook" by Edmund J. Bourne. This is the best book I've ever read/owned/used for dealing with anxiety/agoraphobia.

Dottie, maybe try out this book. Sounds like you do need to learn some techniques to help you out here. You deserve a better quality of life and I have heard this book recommended a lot. I know you don't want to deal with it, but if you could outwit it gradually, you'd have so much to gain.

[hope]

I have this book! My youngest son goes to the school that I was working at when all this happened. The principal and secretary definitely treat me... well let's just say I feel I was backstabbed. I don't mind talking about my experience but going back there makes me feel sad because I really loved my job and when I go I want to cry. I pass my former classroom and I feel really really sad. I even get hugs from former students. I told my husband I wanted to put my son in another school but he doesn't want to. This will be his last year at that school. Good thing is his teacher is on Paxil. She was on CR when that whole mess happened and ended up in the ER like a junkie. She's ok now on regular Paxil.

I think I may be in your same shoes. I was thinking the other day how Paxil stopped working for you. When I tapered and tried to go back on it didn't work at all. Nothing. That was just strange. So I wondered I was close to pooping out on me too. I hope you feel better. Been having some problems with nausea and fatigue.

Also Dottie, I lost my mom about four years ago. She became ill suddenly and was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. She lived a month after the diagnosis but that whole ordeal and losing her was pretty tough. I was already on Paxil and no amount of anything was helping me through it. I feel just as much sadness now over her loss as I did on the paxil.

Wanted to add that I had to push the limit because I had four kids including a rebellious teen, my husband could only take some time off, etc. I went to a school meeting for my gifted middle schooler, dyslexic teen, all with anxiety, dizziness, etc. For my daughters dance performances I had to tell them I could barely volunteer like I did before so I took tickets for the performance while my husband stood by me. I don't know how I pulled it off.

[feelin'_wiggy]

Reading this thread just now I was struck with the amazing strength of the human spirit. We have all endured incredible trials and immense pain. Caring for a sick mother; holding her cold, dead hand; fighting fear so strong that it imprisons you in your home; fighting for your child who is dying from a prescription drug; struggling to regain your mind; these are all among the toughest cards in the deck. Yet, here we are, turning to each other for strength and surviving. I am so proud of all of us.

Dottie, you are a survivor, dear. You wouldn't be hear if you weren't. I so admire your courage to keep fighting. God bless you. I think the workbook is an excellent idea. After the third death, I worked through anger with the help of a similar book. Hope you'll give it a try.

[Dottie]

Thank You Everyone,

I have the book and have been reading it and will definately try some of the suggestions I have read so far. I went for a walk last night shaking all the way but I did make it.

Hugs Dottie

[damama]

Dottie,

I'm not sure if you just acquired the book or if you've had it all along; either way, I'm glad you have it! It truly is a wonderful book! I used to carry it with me where ever I went so I could refer to it whenever the anxiety hit hard; I would read the part that described each symptom and why they are not dangerous. I found this to be very reassuring. Enjoy!

[hope]

Originally Posted by Dottie

Thank You Everyone,

I have the book and have been reading it and will definately try some of the suggestions I have read so far. I went for a walk last night shaking all the way but I did make it.

Hugs Dottie

I used to take the cell phone with me and tell someone to come pick me up half way. Sheesh!

[Buxy`s Back]

dottie great advice here and i agree to push yourself but please not so hard that you feel a failure if you dont sucseed,little and often should keep you going,i get out most days but if i go too far,like a 60 ,like a round trip to the coast,it scares me that much that the next step is harder.i push to go out now at least half hour and if im still doing ok while out i stay out,if iv had enough after half hour i come home and try to relax,but i dont feel like i failed,and if im out 5 hours wow iv done brill,all im saying is dont set yourself goals that will give you a knock back,eventually the little goals will become so easy you can up the stakes,we all feel like this in w/d dottie its not just you and its not something that will last for ever but we meed to do it just so we dont tell our brains and bodies we cant go out.Good luck dottie wish you luck,and sending you big ((((hugs)))) but dont forget the look after dottie and treats for dottie too

[Buxy`s Back]

just read that back and i cant understand it either lmao think my remaining brain cell needs some sleep boy its only 9pm too,boy im aging fast lol

[MicheleT]

Dottie

Like everyone says you have to force yourself to go out and then reflect on how well you have done. You can't let this get the better of you otherwise, life will not be worth it. Really, it is a question of being brave. I've had to do it in the past months and it truly has been awful but I am getting better because now I'm learning there is nothing to fear.

[genevieve]

hi
I agree with the others : small steps are the best. Staying in the house could bring any person to be depressed so going out is a form of therapy!
I think it is important to understand WHY we have this agoraphobia. If it is paxil related we dont really know why but is it more because of social phobia? panic attacks? a fear of passing out or of being to tired to get back home? because of the noise of the streets? I think once we have identified our fear we can act according to it. My biggest fear was passing out while outside the house. I had to understand that fainting was not the end of the world (It never happened to me so I thought that it was dangerous and painful) and it has happen to many people who are still alive today. Once I understood that it was easier to go outside

[Dottie]

Thanks Everyone,

The treats everyone is talking about for myself, I honestly can't think of anything that appeals to me right now. I used to treat myself on a regular basis but now there is no appeal to anything. I know is is withdrawal / depression related and hopefully this will pass but until it does I will have to force myself to carry on the best I can.

Thanks for Responding it means so much to me to know that someone understands and cares.

All your posts means so much to me. I feel like someone cares and not so alone.

Thanks Again Hugs Dottie

[Dottie]

Genevieve,

It is paxil related and I don't go out alone, my husband goes with me. It is more like an unknown fear that has no real basis it is just there. I am not afraid of what you mentioned but I am afraid of birds, trees, the street, this is all ridiculous but it is unidentfiable fear. In my house I am afraid to take a shower or go downstairs by myself. I can do it but the fear remains constant even though I can reason it is not justified. I feel like I have completely lost my mind.

It also bothers me to see a place where I was once happy and normal, now it has lost that feeling like I sense a loss of the feelings, numb and alien are the way I would describe it. Don't know why but I sure miss "me" it is like I have gone somewhere disconnected from my being. I don't know what to do, sometimes I pray to not wake up in the morning but I do and the horror just continues day after day. I really don't know how much more of this I can take.

Thanks for Replying

Hugs Dottie

[feelin'_wiggy]

Dottie,

If my previous posts sounded insensitive, I apologize. It was the exhuberance from beginning to feel alive again.

I do understand what is happening to you. It's been many years now, but I was once afraid to take a shower or roam around different areas of my home alone. I would leave the house when I had no choice, but it was horrible. It wasn't until I started to feel comfortable in my home again that I could go outside without feeling panic and fear. I never knew what I was afraid of; I was just afraid. All the time!

A good therapist and Buspar helped me get through that period. Over the years, especially recently or during bouts of depression/anxiety, I've had periods of agoraphobia, but it's never again been that severe.

It's great that you are using the workbook. See, you do have control, even if it's just a little bit right now. That's okay. Remember...baby steps. Give yourself a hug for that one!

Regarding the Elavil, is it helping at all? Is it possible that it's making you worse? Also, is there any one little thing that makes you happy, even if just for a little while?

You're not alone in this, Dottie. We are here to help you get through this.

((((((Dottie))))))

[Buxy`s Back]

dottie ,thats exactly how it is ,i get scared but never know what for,it must be w/d as i wasnt afraid of my own shadow b4