please help

[Out of Order]

But I don't think I will because I have children and know it would destroy them if I did. I've been off AD's for about 6 weks now and thought I was fortunate. I thought I did it the right way and at the end didn't have many physical symptoms to deal with. Then, BAM 2 days ago this depression hit out of the blue and i am in severe mental pain. The suicidal urges are very strong. My family doesn't know I'm having these thoughts because they would just force me to go back on Paxil. Especially my husband who told me he was not going through another depression with me. Should I tell my therapist? I wanted to call her but thought she's probably at some Christmas party and what a drag to get yet another phone call froma suicidal patient. What would she say anyway? as of now I've been able to fight them off but don't know for how long. I'm sorry.

[Out of Order]

i am so ashamed.

[ihatezaps]

OutofOrder, I can't speak from experience, as I am still weaning from Paxil, but I think that sudden, deep depression is very common after quitting. Don't feel ashamed, it is not you, it is withdrawal from a very powerful drug. Please call your doctor or tell someone if these feelings get out of control! Take care of yourself.

[Charlie]

Out Of Order
Don't be ashamed of the way you feel but PLEASE don't act on this feeling. Depression in withdrawal is very common and it can be overcome. Are you on any kind of suppliments? I believe most people on this board have felt suicidal at one time or another. We will be with you in your struggle and you are not alone. I haven't been here long but this is quite a group and don't be afraid to ask for help and support.

[rdjanis]

OutOfOrder, you have NOTHING to be ashamed about!!!

These episodes go come and go in withdrawal, as time goes on they become less severe. The important thing right now is for you to recognize that this is withdrawal and not you. You can never be to careful when feeling this way. Someone should know what you are feeling.

I am not sure of how slow you withdrew, but I do know that after taking these medications for 21 years a very careful weaning plan would be needed. If the symptoms are to severe, you could go back on a lower dose, and wean 1 ml at a time with a very long period of stabilization in between cuts.

Take care.

[unique]

Hi... I'm kinda new here and in early withdrawal myself. At this point in my w/d, I don't know what I could say to help except to let you know that I care and understand the pain you are in. I don't know who is on line right now, but if no one comes on to help you tonite, please just try to get some sleep and I know someone will be on early a.m. to talk to you.
I'll be thinking about you.

[Out of Order]

thank you for your replies. Actually the depression started pretty soon after I took my last dose but it was very mild. Some things have come up in therapy and I think that these repressed memories combined with lower seratonin levels have created these urges. Promise I won't do anything tonite. Tomorrow's a new day. thank you so much.

[elisa]

Let someone close to you know what you're feeling and call the doc! You owe that to yourself and your family.

I felt DRIVEN to overdose numerous times when on Celexa and called someone to stay with me for until the feelings subsided. There should also be some crisis help lines where you live. Call them or go to the emergency dept of a hospital.

It will likely be that you will be put back on some AD but at least you will be safe.

BUT GET SOME HELP!!

These feelings will subside though... Take care of yourself please.

[scotty]

First, what the heck do you have to be ashamed about... that you feel like cr*p??? Put that thought right out of your head.. NOW!!

Now lets get to the nuts and bolts. You have been on antidepressants for ALOT of years. I see in your signiture that you attempted weaning in the summer and had problems.. what dose of paxil did you go back on and how did you wean?

The suicidal thoughts are VERY common in withdrawal and in some during paxil use. They're thoughts... and as long as your not going to act on them it ok... if you are planning on killing yourself then you need to seek help and a safe place.

I will pray for you tonight. Take care of yourself, get some sleep, and talk with someone if you can. I went to talk therapy twice a week when I was working through some things and in withdrawal from a benzo. Maybe talking with your therapist twice a week would be helpful if you can do that. Hang in there. Things will get better over time. Be assured of my prayers for you.

Nan

[Abby]

o-o-o, please know you are not the only one. I am into week 10, and am on a rollercoaster.

Have you felt suicidal before? I only ask because it is so scary the first time, but (and I know this sounds ridiculously simplistic) it DOES get easier to sit with the feelings in time.

I don't want to minimise what you are going through, but it is VERY common to feel this way and absolutely not act on these feelings - - many, many people feel this way from time to time. I know that the chemical push-and-pull of paxil and withdrawal can make it feel so extreme, but remember, they are only feelings, and you DON'T have to act on them.

It's a hard call to know whether to involve others in these urges or not - you may well find that any kind of MH professional is going to want to drug the feelings away. It can be hard to talk to friends, too, if they have never dealt with these sorts of feelings before - they can freak people out!

My own rule of thumb is...if I am really getting disconnected from other people and more and more withdrawen to the point I feel like 'f** you' about getting help (if I get ANGRILY suicidal) I make myself call somebody who knows about such things. My p-doc is great for this, she just reassures me that the overwhelming majority of people who feel this way never do anything about it, and that it's just another thought.

In my experience, having somebody intensely digging around with the suicidal urges just makes them worse. I am best not taking them any more seriously than one of those moments where you truly do start to understand how somebody could find refuge in alcohol or snap and hurt their kids. I would never in a thousand years act on those feelings, but they flit through my brain, and disappear as fast as they arrive. Mostly the suicidal thoughts are like that for me now, too. I just let them come and go.

I used to feel really ashamed, too, until my p-doc breezily told me that she had a friend who threatened to kill herself one weekend b/c p-doc hadn't asked for a copy of a poem the friend had written. She was reassuring me that many, many otherwise sane people feel like this from time to time.

You might want to take a break from intense exploratory therapy for a time and talk to your therapist about some supportive therapy - you really need to have all your wits about you and a level of resilience and stability to go down that path, and withdrawal is absolutely not that time!

Take good care and be very gentle with yourself - and know that you have nothing to be ashamed of.

[Out of Order]

Thank you all so much for your replies. Yes I still feel the urge but it's not as strong now that I've "verbalized" my greatest fear. Please, Abby, what's the difference between supportive therapy and exploratory therapy? I wish i could see my therapist twice a week but she's too booked. I did not wean too fast. I will not go back on another AD. I am ashamed still because I might've upset some people on htis board. I am in such a black hole right now and wish for once I could encourage someone on here. I did not mean to "cry wolf". I just want to climb out of this hole of hell I'm in. thank you everyone.

[Out of Order]

Sorry, Laurie, I didn't answer your question. In June I was on 25 mg of Paxil, weaned too fast, went back on to 15 and 15 of Lexipro. Then weaned off Paxil entirely but had the Lexipro. Went down on Lex 2.5 mg at a time to where I was off. I am not having any physical side-effects at all only this horrible depression. I pray the demons do not win as God is stronger. It's encouraging to know I'm not alone in this and I praise Paxil Progress.

[ladyofthelake]

Out of Order,

One good way to get a Therapist’s attention who seems a bit distracted is to say “I want to kill myself”. That usually wakes them right up! (ya know its that liability thing! lol)

If you are really feeling that bad in an immediate sense, you can Privately call crisis intervention in your area and see if they have a phone counselor available for Private help. If your family is not supportive and mainly wants you to take drugs that you feel are harmful to your well being then you don’t need to share all with them and can feel ease as an individual with rights to chose as you have recently to with hold info until you are feeling more in a mutual agreement with them but I think it is extremely important to have someone in your own social circle that you can talk to (Soon).

I don’t know your history or life’s circumstance and I would not use any of my full professional skills on a public forum but I hope I can give you some helpful tips.

First, is your Therapist trying to convince you to use meds that you oppose? If so I wouldn’t recommend telling the Therapist - get one (soon) that is willing to practice therapy without the use of the meds that you do not feel are good for you. Preferably a CBT Therapist that is also skilled in Rational Emotive Therapy. Most importantly in finding a Therapist that can really help you, is a need to experience several before you can find one that you will “click” with. That doesn’t mean you won’t “click” with your therapist in your first experience but it is common to need to try out several personalities. (click being short for trust and build a report with) If you do have good report with your therapist then don’t worry about her being at a Christmas party! Call her. She wanted to be a Therapist way above any desire she has had to be at a Christmas Party!

Second issue I see in your post is your med history. For the amount of time the “professionals” have been trying to assist you in your emotional health, it looks as though they were attempting a chemical lobotomy rather than try to help you with actual talking therapy. (starting off the mix with Tofranil) Since you survived all the chemical attempts to silence you, I think that is actually a good reason to build confidence and determination to play this whole picture out and get the very most out of this full life journey. I do believe most of the time people experience the suicidal thoughts after breaking free for a brain controlling med that it is due to the area of the brain these meds have affected for so long. The body is self healing (in many ways) So it seems that there is a great possibility that you will look back on this one day and say fewww can you believe I over came so much of my original depression along with all the “brain damage” induced by the helpers. I am glad to hear you had 6 good weeks before this but I do understand that with a long term psychotropic drug history and complete abstinence from the serotonin drugs you may have a delayed reaction and on top of that this is the season society has demanded we partake in joyful rituals so imagine the decades of rebellion on that! I hope you are feeling better soon and do find some more support.

Lisa

[Out of Order]

Dear LOL, Are you a therapist? thank you for your reply full of wisdom. i slept well (because I took more than the usual dose of sleping pills) but did not wake up refreshed at all. i feel like someone turned of all the lights. I do know i am severely depressed now (it's been over 3 days). I DON'T want to alarm my family (husband now knows, but not the extent and just wants me to go back on Paxil). I wish i had someone to confide in someone who wouldn't automatically send me back to pills. I may have to call the therapist today. Do you really think taking calls from people like me on their days off is part of their jobs and they don't get angry with them after? When do therapists rest? Thank you so much for talking to me.

[Delynbetter]

Definitely part of their job and if they are unavailable, they will have someone for backup - or should. Again, the liability thing on their part - plus a lot of them DO care. The holidays are the hardest on everyone and the therapists/centers know this. Please get in touch with someone.

[elisa]

I've called my pdoc on off-hours several times over the years and she always returned my calls. She even gave me her cell-phone # at one time.

Yes, you do need to talk and need help.

My reaction was a bit strong perhaps to your plea for help. Probably due to my experiences in that I had no feelings left for my loved ones at those times and felt dead inside, yet in terrible emotional pain. You said that you were thinking about your family and that is a GOOD sign!!

[Kitsyl]

Out of Order, phone your doc or, if all else fails, contact the samaritans for a chat. I can tell you that these suicidal thoughts can disappear as quickly as they came, and we never know what wonderful things are just around the next corner that can totally change the way we feel.

Sorry I'm not much help, but I really do feel for you.

Kit

[angels]

Hi,
You have received some great replies here. I don't think I can add anything better, so I'll just speak from my own experience so you'll know that there are many who can relate to your situation.
The suicidal thoughts during withdrawal are sneaky because they are so good at masquerading as the truth. Although you have not been fooled, you are still suffering the real effects. Honor that and do whatever you need to do to keep safe first of all.

From what I have read here, many have gone through physical symptoms, then had a time of good physical and emotional health only to be revisited by depression and/or anxiety in an extreme form - all the more frightening because it seems permanent since withdrawal seems long gone. I hope you can find some comfort in knowing others have been there. This might be hard to hear, but since you were on medications for so long, your taper does seem a little fast. If things continue to be rough, consider taking a low dose for awhile and then tapering very slowly. This is actually a way to help the brain adjust to all the changes and heal in a more natural way. I know that sounds contradictory, but it seems to be how it works.

As for your therapist, I agree with Lisa 100%. I would never have known that there was a therapist who was sane, first of all, had no trouble relating to my chaotic, but sane, mix of personality, spirituality, delusions etc. I had tried a couple of therapists years ago, but it doesn't work very well if you either know more than they do or can't be 100% honest with them - including suicidal thoughts. The therapist is supposed to be the sane one and is supposed to be familiar with the territory you are in - your own personal GPS system. It works best if that therapist is familiar with the territory through personal experience, but it is not essential.

I also agree 100% that you are to be commended for continuing to work with your own sanity even through the fog of medications for so long. These medications have a way of reinforcing the idea that your own wisdom isn't enough. It is enough and it is there. The task is to find a guide to work with you to uncover it bit by bit. That may be the therapist you have now or it could be another one. Explore your current therapist relationship and find out if this person can and is willing to walk a half step ahead of you regardless of where you are.

Many have thought that going back on medication temporarily is a failure. It is not. It takes greater confidence in yourself to use whatever tools are available as you re-discover your personal power.

Post here every day, twice a day, three times a day if it helps.
Angela

[Out of Order]

Well I called the clinic and OF COURSE my therapist is not on call. I'm not wanting to talk to a total stranger. Everyone has been so super to me on this site --I can't begin to tell you how much you have meant to me. Yes i am thinking of my faily which is a good sign. I have had suicide attempts before (Obviously not successful) and know just how bad things can get. I'm not quite there yet, I am at the please help stage. I suppose if I get to the I don't care stage I will talk to someone even a stranger. If I have the energy. I am printing out all your replies and will read them over and over today. Hopefully I'll be able to talk to my therapist tomorrow. OF COURSE freezing rain is in the forcast for tonite. I'll hang in there. You guys are the best.

[elisa]

Could you leave a message for your therapist to call you back?

If not, just ask her for a tel # to reach her in a case of emergency? It's always good to have a # for your own peace of mind and comfort.

I'm glad to read that will call for help IF you get the feeling of not caring for your family. I strongly believe that a lack of these feelings is a crucial sign, it was for me and for my X who failed at 2 suicide attempts. He also told me that he had no feelings for loved ones at those times. They were just "out of the picture".

I'm VERY glad that you HAVE the feelings of love for your family, these will pull you through the rough times!!!

I prayed for you every time I woke up in the night. I hope you find someone to talk to. When I was going through benzo withdrawal, I felt the same as you do now. I talked with my therapist twice a week for support -- just talking about my feelings only, not working on anything really heavy with her. She just listened and offered her support. She also supported me by email any time I needed it, which is great if you can find a therapist who supports by email too -- mine would do that every day if I needed it. (I read above that you wanted to know the difference between support therapy and exploratory therapy -- when you go for support, that's just it, support and not dealing with any heavy issues -- otherwise I found I'd just obsess on them over and over if we talked about anything too heavy.) I went through terrible withdrawal from klonopin, was free of it for 3 years, but I still wasn't making it, and although I vowed I'd never do it, I chose to go on Lexapro a couple months ago due to severe anxiety, depersonalization, and derealization and obsessing on things constantly. I have found great relief from the Lexapro at a very low dose -- 5 mgs. I only say this to encourage you to do whatever you need to do to help yourself -- supportive therapy, nutritional supplements, talking with understanding friends, writing your feelings in a journal, taking your Lexapro again if you want to (it certainly beats suicide, which would not give you the chance to see your children grow up or fulfill your own dreams for your life). Just do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. And remember God loves you, will see you through this, and wants you around for your children and His own plans for your beautiful life.

Take care.

Nan

[Out of Order]

I don't know how to get in touch with my therapist now. The stupid freezing rain has started, I live in a mountainous region, and even though i could leave a message on her voice mail who knows when she'll get it since even 1/4 "of ice on the roads closes everything down around here. My therapist has a chronic health condition herself and her boundaries are firmly in place. I don't blame her. I feel like Nan said I just want someone to talk to. Thank you Nan for your prayers. I'm hanging in there. It's hard.

[ladyofthelake]

Out of Order,

“Dear LOL, Are you a therapist?” –Yes.

“ thank you for your reply” - Welcome.

*Item for Therapy* “(husband now knows, just wants me to go back on Paxil)” - Husband needs to know/see that Paxil along with years of brain control drugs has caused this. His lack of support for your goals is not helping. His desire for the easy route of “go back on Paxil” is your concern of great harm to you. Note: If family does not respect what you want and they want you to do something you believe is harmful to you, that falls into the category of abuse (they could mean well but it is not well behavior of theirs – why feed off of others unwell behavior, family must deal with their own issues) –This could be contributing to your depression. You may want to look at options about this rather than allowing the responses of others to affect your negative thoughts. Hopefully your Therapist will be able to help you investigate this issue for options.

“I wish i had someone to confide in someone who wouldn't automatically send me back to pills. I may have to call the therapist today.” - Do you have a mother, sister or friend that you can talk to that will understand your no psych drug goal? No one can send you back to pills. It takes your legal consent and willingness to take the pills unless someone tries to use the system on you and that would be difficult these days as there are way too many hoops to jump through for the ones who want to use that control.

“Do you really think taking calls from people like me on their days off is part of their jobs and they don't get angry with them after?” Yes, I never get angry but that is just me.. – I always preferred to be available (most of the time). Others said I needed more balance of boundaries for personal time – They might have been right as I now continue with my long Sabbatical! lol.

“When do therapists rest?” - Good Question - Don’t know? I always tried to get 4 hours of sleep a night the nights I did get to sleep! lol (almost kidding)

Sorry to hear that your Therapist was not available immediately but tomorrow will arrive soon. I hope you can find one trust worthy person in your personal life that will be able to talk to you. I have found some bright and caring individuals that do work on crisis hotlines.

~Food for Thought~ “No One Can Make You Feel Inferior Without Your Consent”

Blessings,
Lisa
__________________

You are welcome. I will keep the prayers going for you. I agree with LOL -- find someone who is understanding to talk to -- your Mom, sister, a friend, aunt, grandma, anyone. And know that everyone on this message board is behind you, and most of us have been in the same position one or many times. Maybe you can find a fun project to do with your children to distract you from all this. I know that's hard when we are down, but I find that helps me a lot -- I'm a special education teacher, and doing things with my "children" -- students -- makes so much difference in how I look at life. I am so glad you are hanging in there. You can do this.

Nan