Popular Antidepressants Boost Brain Growth

[elisa]

Yeah, if that were so, why are our emotions and thinking often so negatively affected while on these drugs and withdrawing from them. I would call the new growth: brain DAMAGE!!
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/516888/

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The beneficial effects of a widely used class of antidepressants might be the result of increased nerve-fiber growth in key parts of the brain, according to a Johns Hopkins study.

Newswise — The beneficial effects of a widely used class of antidepressants might be the result of increased nerve-fiber growth in key parts of the brain, according to a Johns Hopkins study being published in the January 2006 issue of the Journal of Neurochemistry.

The study on rats, led by Vassilis E. Koliatsos, M.D., a neuropathologist at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, found that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) increase the density of nerve-impulse-carrying axons in the frontal and parietal lobes of the neocortex and part of the limbic brain which control the sense of smell, emotions, motivation, and organs that work reflexively such as the heart, intestines and stomach. “It appears that SSRI antidepressants rewire areas of the brain that are important for thinking and feeling, as well as operating the autonomic nervous system,” said Koliatsos.

Axons are long, filament-shaped extensions of neurons that, together with myelin, are the main constituents of nerves. Axons conduct chemically driven nerve impulses away from the cell body toward a narrow gap known as a synapse. Among the chemicals involved are such monoamines as norepinephrine and serotonin, which, at the synapse, are transferred to another neuron.

Antidepressants, such as Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil, have long been thought to exert their clinical effects by increasing synaptic concentrations of serotonin and norepinephrine, enhancing or stimulating their transference.

“But our findings -- that serotonin reuptake modulators increase the density of nerve synapses, especially in the front part of the brain - may offer a better explanation of why antidepressants are effective and why they take time to work,” according to Koliatsos.

For example, antidepressants increase synaptic monoamines within hours, and the regulatory effects on receptors are complete within a few days, yet clinically meaningful results from antidepressants usually require a two- to four-week delay.

“This disparity between simple pharmacological effects and clinical experience might be due to the time it takes for serotonin axons to grow,” Koliatsos said.

“For the patient, this hypothesis provides more tangible evidence of a real effect in the brain,” he added.

In the Hopkins study, Koliatsos and his team gave either the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor fluoxetine (Prozac), the selective serotonin reuptake enhancer tianeptine (a drug approved only for human use in France) or the selective norepineprine reuptake inhibitor desipramine, a so-called tricyclic antidepressant, to groups of rats for four weeks and studied anatomical patterns of serotonin stimulation on various parts of the brain. The results showed that fluoxetine and tianeptine, but not desipramine, increased the density of serotonin axons in the frontal and parietal neocortex and certain limbic cortical and subcortical areas.

One possible explanation for this action is the brain-derived growth factor (BDNF). BDNF is regulated by levels of serotonin and is known to be a prime candidate for causing serotonin axon growth, Koliatsos said.

In general, the relationships between brain serotonin concentrations and BDNF expression are very complex, but previous studies have suggested that both higher (such as caused by serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and lower (such as effected by tianeptine) concentrations of free serotonin might induce BDNF expression in such brain regions as the frontal and parietal cortex.

The researchers caution that since a previous study failed to show a correlation between tianeptine treatment and BDNF levels, further investigation of the complex regulations of BDNF by antidepressants is needed.

Funding for this study came from the National Institute of Mental Health.

The study is currently available at the Journal of Neurochemistry Web site:
http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/j...?ref=0022-3042

[sheacarney]

serotonin axons in the frontal and parietal neocortex

I would swear to you I'd read an article about the brains of people who were MORE likely to commit suicide, than the general population, and how these individuals had more serotonin axons in their frontal lobes (discovered upon autopsy, following suicide). I wish I could remember where I'd read this information. The point is, I'm not so sure that increase in axons is such a good thing. It would make sense seeing as how these drugs appear to increase suicide rates.

[elisa]

Originally Posted by sheacarney

I would swear to you I'd read an article about the brains of people who were MORE likely to commit suicide, than the general population, and how these individuals had more serotonin axons in their frontal lobes (discovered upon autopsy, following suicide). I wish I could remember where I'd read this information. The point is, I'm not so sure that increase in axons is such a good thing. It would make sense seeing as how these drugs appear to increase suicide rates.

I believe that I read that same article on Dr Tracey's website where an autopsy was done on a woman who had taken AD's up to 2 years prior to her death. Her brain was LOADED with serotonin.

[mach3939]

“But our findings -- that serotonin reuptake modulators increase the density of nerve synapses, especially in the front part of the brain

Makes more pathways that just the medicine uses, that is why withdrawal takes so long! Brain has to figure out what to do with all these pathways it cant use anymore and where to find ones that aren't medicine related to use!

Just my thought!
Debbie

[genevieve]

interessing article

in fact, I think they know for a while that AD does more than just "pump" more serotonin in the synaptic cleft since it take weeks to have an effect. If the effect was only SRI it would take hours to get an antidepressive effect... in fact, they are prescribing these drugs for 20 years and they are just understanding NOW what they are doing... (they will tell you the same is happening with many drugs like aspirin the problem being that you take aspirin once a month not every day!).

also I have to say I can smell bad science here. we have 2 things :
A-there is an effect of SSRI on the synapse. what is exactly this effect? they dont know
B-we SEEM to have a positive effect of SSRI (if you manipulate the data correctly you can see that SSRI are effective for 50% of people VS 45% for placebo)

what do they do? they take A+ B and decide this neuronal growth is positive while it may be one reason why some of us take one year and more to feel "normal" after SSRI use. Depression is typically short term (it takes a "typical" depression 3-4 months to lift up... the chronically depressed are the exception). I think they are changing those depressive episodes into CHRONIC DRUG USERS. We have the same thing with ritalin. Child who use ritalin have to take stimulants for the rest of their life becasue their brain is damaged.

You can take data and say almost anything when the date is not clear.

[Delynbetter]

One question for the article...

ARE YOU FRICKIN' KIDDING ME???

They must be on the meds themselves and are trying to defend keeping their jobs with the cognitive deficits the meds have left them with.

[rdjanis]

roflmao... my thoughts exactly Delyn.

[elisa]

B-we SEEM to have a positive effect of SSRI (if you manipulate the data correctly you can see that SSRI are effective for 50% of people VS 45% for placebo)

Gen, as per latest research, these drugs are only effective in 30% of us. The percentage of effectiveness has been going down steadily over the past let's say 5-10 years. So placebo is outperforming the claims of "effectiveness" by a large margin. The article is somewhere buried in the Misc Section and was posted a few weeks back.

[]I think they are changing those depressive episodes into CHRONIC DRUG USERS.

I think you might be right on the button here!

[ladyofthelake]

elisa,

Thanks for the article. Its good to know the location of such brainyack scientific minds so I know to not have a need for assistance in their location! They must have come up with this one after they doubled their own dose of Halicon. I feel a major venting episode on the way so if not interested in a rant then stop here! lol

The extra nerve fiber growth they talk about occurring with these drugs is the very rare physiological process known as DRUG ADDICTION!!! (although I have never seen it scammed in a public explanation to this degree!!!) I hope that others with an education on physiological responce of CNS drugs reads this so that it gets filed where it belongs.

All addictive drugs cause extra nerve fiber growth that blossoms with the duration of the use of the drug and it is known as (yep elisa hit nail on head) Nerve Damage with a physical chemical dependency. When the chemical is removed the “extra nerve fiber growth” of the neuro transmitters that became available just for the drug must close and become inactive which can cause the body quite a considerable amount of discomfort and pain – hence the phrase “DRUG WITHDRAWAL”. fewww!! thanks! I needed that rant after reading this one.

Lisa

[elisa]

Originally Posted by ladyofthelake

elisa,

Thanks for the article. Its good to know the location of such brainyack scientific minds so I know to not have a need for assistance in their location! They must have come up with this one after they doubled their own dose of Halicon. I feel a major venting episode on the way so if not interested in a rank then stop here! lol

The extra nerve fiber growth they talk about occurring with these drugs is the very rare physiological process known as DRUG ADDICTION!!! (although I have never seen it scammed in a public explanation to this degree!) I hope that others with an education on physiological responce of CNS drugs reads this so that it gets filed where it belongs.

All addictive drugs cause extra nerve fiber growth that blossoms with the duration of the use of the drug and it is known as (yep elisa hit nail on head) Nerve Damage with a physical chemical dependency. When the chemical is removed the “extra never fiber growth” of the neuro transmitters that became available just for the drug must close and become inactive which can cause the body quite a considerable amount of discomfort and pain – hence the phrase “DRUG WITHDRAWAL”. fewww thanks I needed that rant after reading this one.

Thanks sooo much for clarifying that it is a physiological process known as drug addiction.

Your explanation explains it fully why we go through drug withdrawl!!

I would love to see comparison research done in between psychotropic drug users and illegitimate ones to see if the very same changes take place? I bet it would show similar changes.

I'm forever indebted to you!!

“It appears that SSRI antidepressants rewire areas of the brain that are important for thinking and feeling, as well as operating the autonomic nervous system,” said Koliatsos.

Yeah right....

Even if they do 'rewire the brain' , the brain is an organ that should never be tampered with in this manner, whether it is thought, believed or guessed....
Notice the word 'appears' ... Mirages appear too, so do aliens apparantly , but neither have been found as FACT...

I find this article nauseating.....

If they can call frying neuroreceptors +synapses in poisonous toxic gunk 'boosting brain growth'...
Then we can call heart surgery by a blindfolded monkey an 'operation'....

Wonder where the money trail leads on this one ?...

(actually come to think of it i dont wanna know...im done with discovering corruption in the pharma/psych industry...)

[elisa]

Rory,
Funding for this study came from the National Institute of Mental Health.

Big Pharma supports the NIMH and it's equivalents worldwide. They've got their tentacles everywhere. To me they are like giant octopus with their tentacles with "ink" to disguise themselves as the benevolent ones.

[Olivier]

Elisa...thanks for your article.
Looks like they do some backwards engineering here....
try to match the (by the farma's so badly badly wanted) posive results to
the meds they administer.....but in the meantime it is all just wild speculation.

Lady of te lake, thanks for your explanation on drug addictions....
Never ever did I expect to be a drug addict.
Although very easy available in this sick country of mine....
I always stayed clear of it, because of the missery I have seen by those on drugs....
And suddenly I find myself in the grip of some legal drugs.........

Yes i know Elisa ...

But , what i meant was , that i am sick of being sickened by this corrupt, unethical regime, so therefore i dont want to discover any more corruption as it seems to be so rampant ....

[ladyofthelake]

elisa,

You are very welcome. Many doctors do not know or care to learn anything about the physiciological process with the use of CNS drugs (they just dish them out with liability covered under their internal medicine education where they were to have learned about how to manage all medications). But that still does not explain to me why people educated in the area of physiology and CNS drugs that read this crap and corruption allow the scamming to continue on the innocent public that has not had specific education in this area. It seems more like a lack of caring to me as it can't be all $$$s that are influcencing people who know better and are not trying to protect the public.

I understand Redkings frustration but I can't put my head in the sand about it and that is causing me a serious internal conflict about continuing with my life long goals of my education and career.

Lisa

[Charlie]

I absolutely believe they rewire the brain, that is exactly why the personalities of people change while on this crap. That is why people kill themselves or others, walk away from their loved ones and everything else that is completely out of character. And to think they see this as a positive change.......

[elisa]

Originally Posted by Redking

Yes i know Elisa ...

But , what i meant was , that i am sick of being sickened by this corrupt, unethical regime, so therefore i dont want to discover any more corruption as it seems to be so rampant ....

I know Rory, I go through the same feelings sometimes, but sharing and spreading awareness also gives us a glimpse into the truth and workings of these drugs.

I'm sooo glad about Lisa's explanation about the workings of these drugs in that they cause addiction!! I've seen many claims on that very same subject but never really explained as to WHY!!

[sheacarney]

Lisa,

So this increased density of nerve fibers can occur with crack cocaine or methamphetamine? Are there studies that show this? I've looked at published studies about MDMA, but they showed a desimated neural network, resulting from the drug's usage. Prior to exposure to the drug, neural connections were dense. After exposure to ecstasy, sections of the neural network were completely wiped out; nothing but sparse, disconnected strands, like holes in the brain.

Why has this correlation between the psychotropics and illegal drug addiction not been made, with regard to an increase of nerve fibers? I can absolutely believe what you are saying. I'm living it. Do you have any links to information about the increased nerve fibers and drug addiction? I'm dying to read about it.

Shea

[ladyofthelake]

Shea,

Basically yes it occurs with all addictive CNS drugs. The specific areas they target may be a little different for each one but it sounds like the basic increase in nerve fiber of neruotransmitters of a physical chemical dependancy. Yes there are many studies that show it but I am sorry I don't have any links to pass to you now as it is late and I am headed off to slumberland. I will try to post some for you tomorrow. However it is a basic psysiclogical science that is taught to all Addiction Specialists in their early classes. Most Med Students are taught the same education also if they don't sleep through the class.

("Why has this correlation between the psychotropics and illegal drug addiction not been made, with regard to an increase of nerve fibers?")

I think the answer to that is because most all medically trained persons commonly realise that pharmacutical physical drug dependancy does not differ for illicit drug physical dependancy. But that is an unpleasant topic of medical science for most medical persons to admitt. An Oxyconten Withdrawal is not much different than a Heroin or Morphine Withdrawal. I read Dr.Tracy did compare her concerns of the brain neurological affects of the SSRIs to MDMA. Though I am supportive of the controlled use of Benzodiazepines over the use of SSRIs, they do wreck some nasty damage to the nervous system being nerve fiber increase of neurotransmitters also and the withdrawal from Tranqulizers is considerd the most dangerous in the phramacutical class as Alcohol is the most dangerous nervous system withdrawal of the non pharmacutical class. You can't imagine the amount of brain damage that is visable in autopsys of addicted brains. So I imagine there is death of brain cells along with the neuro damage of the SSRIs they are presently boosting about! Fortunately we only use a small percent of the brain cells that we have, so I guess we can afford a little loss!

It looks to me like the study at Hopkins was done because the Anti SSRI people are pressuring for more info i.e. Dr. Tracy for example and Big Pharma used this as smoke screeen to give something to others to pondor for a while. I think they should have come up with something a little better than this as there are too many people out there that do know Pharmacological/Physical Responce Basics so they will be called on it. But in the mean time the areas of the brain they are showing the most nerve damage to be occuring at (as they want people to believe that is causing a physical change for the better to have potential to premanently heal depression! LOL) will rise concern for someone to call them on that also, so it looks like a set up with big back fire potential even if it was a Larry, Moo and Curlly move.

Blessings,
Lisa

[Olivier]

Bottom line :

Although often denied, it seems to me that here is no other conclusion possible.
The Physical damage, caused by AD's, is permanent !!!
It's up to the flexability of the brain and its owner to get your balance sorted out again...

This thought really gives me the creeps....

[ladyofthelake]

Shea,


(Neurotransmitter:
A biochemical substance released from the neuron that is responsible for the inter-neuron signal reduction. )

This article under “Varied forms of addiction” and “Physiological basis” has a very good description of what I am talking about as it shows ADs in this class of physiological dependence and gives good examples of how some drugs increase neurotransmitter activity causing damage and others deplete them - either way the body will have difficulty adjusting to a physical change without the neurological influence of the drug.

http://www.answers.com/topic/addiction

Since some authorities have compared the AD affects to MDMA
This article under Causes and Symptoms gives a brief description of the neurotransmitter affect.

http://www.minddisorders.com/A-Br/Am...disorders.html

http://www.thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/...r_ecstasy.html


This article says A Lot about chemical dependence (beware of small print) here is an example in this article to consider other than it too sites the ADs in the class of Serotonin Stimulants as Ecstasy.

Many substances can also cause rebound effects (significant return of the original symptom in absence of the original cause) when discontinued, regardless of their tendency to cause other withdrawal symptoms. Rebound depression is common among users of any antidepressant who stop the drug abruptly, which can sometimes feel worse than the original state before taking medication. This is somewhat similar (though generally less intense and more drawn out) than the 'crash' users of Ecstacy, amphetamines, and other stimulants experience. Occasionally light users of opiates that would otherwise not experience much in the way of withdrawals will notice some rebound depression as well. Extended use of drugs that increase the amount of serotonin or other neurotransmitters in the brain can cause some receptors to 'turn off' temporarily or become desensitized, so when the amount of the neurotransmitter available in the synapse returns to an otherwise normal state, there are fewer receptors to attach to, causing feelings of depression until the brain re-adjusts.

http://www.mrsci.com/Addiction/Withdrawal.php

thought this one may be of interest

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/people/v...inPhysHome.htm

Hope some of the articles help with what you are asking for, as they are not forms of scientific transcripts but they do have some explanation.

Lisa

[Light]

Originally Posted by ladyofthelake

All addictive drugs cause extra nerve fiber growth that blossoms with the duration of the use of the drug and it is known as (yep elisa hit nail on head) Nerve Damage with a physical chemical dependency. When the chemical is removed the “extra nerve fiber growth” of the neuro transmitters that became available just for the drug must close and become inactive which can cause the body quite a considerable amount of discomfort and pain – hence the phrase “DRUG WITHDRAWAL”. fewww!!

I understand and agree with your basic point about structural and functional changes to neurons/neurotransmitters, the rebound phenomenon, etc but I don't think that all addictive drugs cause nerve fiber growth. I've never heard this. Can you provide some clarification. Thanks.

[elisa]

Lisa, thank you so much for the links. I will read them shortly.

I do believe that the brain can re-balance itself, adapt and/or create new pathways. Numerous examples in the medical field have proven that over and over again.

[sheacarney]

Thank you so much for the links, Lisa. I'm reading away!

-Shea

[scotty]

" Extended use of drugs that increase the amount of serotonin or other neurotransmitters in the brain can cause some receptors to 'turn off' temporarily or become desensitized, so when the amount of the neurotransmitter available in the synapse returns to an otherwise normal state, there are fewer receptors to attach to, causing feelings of depression until the brain re-adjusts."

The official version of "Poop Out"!!