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Old 12-21-2005, 06:51 AM   #1
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the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

dear friends,
i have not been on this site much because i have been very very very ill lately during my withdrawal. my progress has been very backwards and it is hard for me to get on the computer. nonetheless, i must post this important message to help others.

when "some" people go cold turkey (or close to cold turkey) off of an ssri, they "sometimes" only have a small window of time before they can go back on an ssri without causing further damage to their withdrawal. for people that this is the case for, this window is usually varies from 2 to 6 weeks. charly groderick (author of www.antidepressantsfacts.com) and others warn about this. sometimes when a person goes cold turkey, after a certain period of time, the brain sees the ssri as the enemy. this is known as the "kindling effect." this has happened to numerous people on this website. shea carney took a single dose of lexapro 4 months after her cold turkey withdrawal and went into convulsions and went to the ER. i tried taking zoloft 2 and 1/2 weeks after i went cold turkey and got terrible nosebleeds and migrains so i quit again. after trying to go back on 2 months later, one dose of zoloft thru me into the emergency room with akathesia. several months later, i tried only taking "2 milligrams" of zoloft and guess what happened? my skin started burning and i got akathesia. charly groderick himself quit prozac cold turkey and a couple of months later took a single dose of prozac which also put him in the ER and that is what made him sick for years. rob robinson warns in one of his posts that going back on an ssri can make things much worse once you are in a cold turkey withdrawal. dr. ann blake tracy warns on her website that each time you go back on the ssri tends to be more dangerous and this is possibly why.

so why does this happen? one reason could be that this happens because for "some" people in withdrawal, the brain has too much serotonin. they have free floating serotonin with no serotonin receptors to receive this serotonin. that is why, as you will see from this message board, many people who take 5htp and st. johns wort during withdrawal get extremely sick and start having signs of serotonin syndrome.

**of course, many people who go cold turkey can go back on ssris with no trouble at all. but i just want people to be aware of this so if they get sicker, they will not think they are alone and will have some understanding about what is happening to them.

please don't think i learned this myself as i can't take credit for it. all this info i learned from others who are more knowledgeable about withdrawal from listserves such as prozac awareness and withdrawal and recovery.

thanks for listening.

p.s. you might want to consider making this a "sticky" or just making sure others know about this possibility who ask for advice.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:19 AM   #2
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

First i want to tell you i feel admiration for the strenght you have zoloftfree
and hope whit all my heart you start to feeling better i know how much are you sufering i experienced the same kind of anxiety than you i hope it is less severe by now
what are your symptoms now?

I can totally realate to what you are saying
after I tapper from 100 mg zoloft (i took it for almost 5 years) i went into severe whitdrawal after almost 3 months off i had to got back on it but the first two months of resuming was very bad if not a lot worst than in w/d i felt all the w/d symptoms plus some other things like you said it felt like my body didnt want more of it inside its been 5 months since i resume and most of anxiety is gone but im still feeling bad depressed and start to feel a zombie again
i feel totally terrified that if I tapper and stop and cant handle w/d next time it wont work at all or i will get "kindling effect" on the other hand keep taking it means in the future i will suffer even if i take it cause of the tolerance or will need to rise the dose and keep taking it indefinetly
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:21 AM   #3
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

considering how they work, i'm not sure about the brain having too much seratonin in withdrawal. Also i think this can happen for anyone who has a hard time in withdrawal. I tapered over 3 months but for me it was basically like just stopping.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:47 AM   #4
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

ender, as long as you taper very slowly, like a 5% reduction every 2 to 6 weeks you should be fine.

i recently have been developing a lot of neurological problems from my CT withdrawal. its hard to get into detail, but i am mostly in bed all day from severe dizziness, severe blurred vision, headaches, and trouble with walking at times and etc. my autonomic nervous system is very sensitive and i can not tolerate any artificial lights, tv, or even leaving the house for the stimulation is too great. i have terrible chest pains also. i have terrible periods were my heart races for hours at a time, even on the klonopin. i have terrible terrible mental fog with terrible bouts of confusion at times. i have become very disabled from my CT withdrawal. although i am pregnant, i had to take klonopin sinec the panic and fear were so bad. however, the klonopin makes me feel like a total zombie so i am tapering off that. i have seen doctors and had tests and nothing is found. i get ill from all meds.

for my whole withdrawal, i took no vitamins or supplements at all. i think this was a terrible mistake and led to me getting sicker. the body needs vitamins as fuel to heal or one can only get sicker. many people don't touch vitamins during withdrawal sinec they are too sensitive. however, if one slowly introduces vitamins and supplements, even if it means starting at 1/10th of the dose, the body will realize that these supplements will not harm it. our bodies are very sensitive in withdrawal since they are trying to protect us against further harm.

scott, the reason i think that some ppl in withdrawal have too much serotonin is beause the exibit the same signs as people who have negative reactions to ssris, such as akathesia and etc. dr. tracy makes mentoin of this excess serotonin that some people have while in withdrawal. some ppl in withdrawal get signs of serotonin syndrome by taking 5htp, st. johns wort. if you study signs of serotonin syndrome and symptoms ppl have in withdrawal, they seem remarkable similiar. however, this is the info i got from others, not myself, it also confused me.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:52 AM   #5
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

Hi Zoloftfree! Good to see you back here again. Sorry you´re feeling so bad. You´re right when you say that some people just can´t go back. Just like you I tried todo this a couple of times and it was impossible. I´m also in touch with others with the same problems. How are you doing right now? When´s the baby due?
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:59 AM   #6
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

Sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time Zoloftfree... I knew something was wrong, have thought of you often

In honesty, I don't think the reasons as to why this happens to some and not others is fully understood.... yet. This happens to some people while taking the medication, it poops out, they go into withdrawal while taking the medication and become very very ill. Dottie is the perfect example of that. There was no window for her at all.

Cold turkey is dangerous for sure, unfortunately most people that come here have already started the process and for some there is no going back. I am not sure I agree with the 'window', IMO, for some individuals it works, for others it does not. Some people get no windows at all. It is an individual thing I believe. I believe either you are one of the people it works for.... or not.

Anyhow, I cannot imagine you going through this while being pregnant. It is a very difficult time for you for sure. I hope you find relief and some peace in the new year.

Take care of yourself.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:59 AM   #7
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

the baby is due in about 7 weeks. i feel horrible taking klonopin in the 3rd trimester but i really had no choice. the anxiety and fear were so severe, all i could do is scream in terror all day long. i honestly wanted to end my life the fear was so bad. i could not take it anymore. there is just only a certain amount a person can handle. all i did was cry all day from the anxiety and that can be worse for a fetus. but i feel like such a terrible zombie on the klonopin. i had tried valium and felt like even more of a zombie. is it normal to feel very zombie like and "out of it" on benzos? i am only taking .25 milligrams twice a day. i took it for 2 weeks and am now very slowly weaning off. also, the klonopin makes me feel much more dizzy and makes the mental fog worse. is that normal? i thought after a few weeks i would adapt to it but i did not. but zappelina, taking vitamins has helped me alot. i had to start very very very slowly to get my body to adjust though.
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:03 AM   #8
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

Do you have a support system in place at home? You should be pampered at this point, resting and awaiting the arrival of the baby.
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:07 AM   #9
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

yes, my husband and i are living with my parents and my sister and her husband and their son are moving in with us to help me since i am doing so poorly. i am just avoiding any stress, stimulation or any kind and usually just in bed.
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:08 AM   #10
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

I was told by an ssri charity that every time you take an ssri and then stop (either cold turkey or slow withdrawal) it becomes increasingly difficult to go back on again.

This is even the case with things like St Johns Wort and is all to do with the brains increasing sensitivities to the various chemical changes.
(I had previously taken st johns wort with absolutely no probs when starting but after stopping ssris i was left very very ill from the effects of the herb)
Happened again when retried ssri and then tricyclic.

I dont understand the 'whys' but it was definately the case with me.

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Old 12-21-2005, 09:08 AM   #11
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

That is good to hear, it is great to have family support behind you.

Take care!!
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Old 12-21-2005, 09:48 AM   #12
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

zoloftfree yes dear i think klonopin xanax etc help whit the anxiety but at the same time can increase the fog when i was in w/d i couldnt tolerate the anxiety but somehow i could read then start taking xanax and it easy the anxiety but couldnt read at all a neurologist told me its a common effect on benzos

dear ill send ya all the good toughts for you and the baby hang on you will get better
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Old 12-21-2005, 10:21 AM   #13
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

FINALLY. I always felt so alone on this topic!

I always thought that if I was in desperate need, well, I could always hop back on the Paxil train, get well, get fat, taper, suffer from w/d and try to squeeze 2-3 good years in med-free before another episode. WRONG. I was in the worst shape ever last year with agitated anxiety and depression. After getting much worse on Lexapro, I begged for Paxil. I took ONE dose and had akathesia so badly it lasted 3 days and had to be broken by horse doses of Xanax. Then I tried Effexor and my head burned and I got agitated...finally I was calmed down with Klonopin and managed to get on Zoloft. I am a firm believer now in the kindling effect when it comes to treating anxiety and depression b/c kindling has been an important consideration in treating bipolar...it's proven that when bipolar patients go off and on meds, they kindle and become more resistant to treatment and the epsisodes get worse. I can't imagine depression and anxiety would be that much different. Just my two cents.
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Old 12-21-2005, 10:34 AM   #14
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

so it did work for you to go back on zoloft, sage? you had no bad effects at all when you resumed zoloft? i wonder why. if one dose of paxil gave you akathesia for 3 days, i would have thought zoloft would have done the same. i wonder why if effexor and paxil both gave you serotonin syndrome effects zoloft did not. did zoloft initially give you akathesia but you took benzos to cover it up and then the akathesia eventually went away? how was your initial reaction to zoloft?
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Old 12-21-2005, 11:08 AM   #15
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

I was under a smart doctor's care (for once) around the clock thankfully -- I took 1.5mg of klonopin for a few days (slept most of the time) while they introduced 25mg of Zoloft -- must have clamed my system down. I was on those two for two weeks and then I was duped into going on a mood stabilizer for 11 months (which may have helped -- who the heck knows). Just tapered off so all I take is Zoloft --100mgs. I hate being on an SSRI, that's why I am part of this communitiy but I can't afford physically and financially to be in mental ruin like last year when I thought I was going to die. However, this being said, I would like to say that the medication is part of a holistic approach -- I go to weekly therapy, exercise daily, eat (fairly) well and don't smoke, do drugs or drink anything alcoholic except some wine. In the past, I used to go on Paxhell and call it a day (no talk therapy, etc).
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Old 12-21-2005, 01:00 PM   #16
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

I vote that this thread be made into a sticky. I'll post later.
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Old 12-21-2005, 02:10 PM   #17
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

here is an article that discusses this very issue:

http://www.drugawareness.org/Archive...ecord0002.html

the conclusion of the link is as follows:

Conclusion: Based on the retrospective review of medical charts, youth receiving SSRI appear to be at risk for treatment emergent PAE (psychiatric adverse events) and recurrence with re-exposure to an SSRI. Prospective longer term studies evaluating the course and prognosis of youths manifesting PAE to SSRI are necessary.

also, dr. ann blake tracy talks about this in her book "Prozac panacea or pandora," that each time you go back on the drug can be more dangerous and the body can become more sensitive to the drug.
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Old 12-21-2005, 03:40 PM   #18
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

We have talked about this before. This is the exact reason that we tell those that come here to NOT go cold turkey!!! Yes, returning to the ssri in some can help stop the cold turkey withdrawal, in others it makes it worse. So the moral of the story is

Don't go cold turkey!!!!!
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Old 12-21-2005, 04:41 PM   #19
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty
We have talked about this before. This is the exact reason that we tell those that come here to NOT go cold turkey!!! Yes, returning to the ssri in some can help stop the cold turkey withdrawal, in others it makes it worse. So the moral of the story is

Don't go cold turkey!!!!!
Exactly!! That's what we have been advocating throughout!! A VERY slow taper is the only safe way to get off these drugs successfully!!
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Old 12-21-2005, 04:46 PM   #20
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

Zoloftfree,

I feel so sorry for you that you have been so very ill due to Cold Turkey and trying the merry-go-round of meds.

I sincerely hope that you will improve with your health. I'm glad that you are receiving support from your family.
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Old 12-22-2005, 01:54 AM   #21
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

Cold turkey is dangerous and so is a too quick taper BUT how are we supposed to handle this problem when someone develops dangerous side effects while on full dose of the drug? This is a problem since itīs hard to tell which is more the most harmful alternative, cold turkey withdrawal or taper and keep taking a drug you already have bad side effects from.
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2004 tapered Zoloft too quickly after sudden onset of muscle stiffness and extreme restlessness on full dose. Severe and prolonged WD problem with a long list of symptoms. Considerable mental but very little physical improvement so far. Last Zoloft dose April 18 2004.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:33 AM   #22
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

I'll have to come back and read this whole thread...but I just wanted to say that I wish I/we could put are arms around you and hold you tight til the baby comes. I'm so sorry that you are having to endure this at this delicate time. My heart goes out to you and you will be in my prayers.

As for the topic at hand. On Dr. Tracy's CD, she tells in detail of a fellow who went off cold turkey and was off a good deal of time, many months and when having great difficulty decided to go back on.

Long story short, if I'm remembering correctly he kidnapped his brother in-law and eventually shot him then called his sister and told her what he had done. The brother in-law survived, thank God. But it goes to show the danger exactly as you've mentioned.

I need to revisit the CD to get this exact.

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Old 12-22-2005, 11:23 AM   #23
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

There is NO easy answer to getting off these drugs. The ONLY answer is to prevent people from starting them and encouraging alternative treatments... which are the best option for success anyway.
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Old 12-22-2005, 11:48 AM   #24
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

I have to agree Laurie. Quick fixes don't work... period. This is in every aspect of life, not just in the health.
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Old 12-22-2005, 12:22 PM   #25
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Re: the possible dangers of resuming an ssri after cold turkey withdrawal

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty
There is NO easy answer to getting off these drugs. The ONLY answer is to prevent people from starting them and encouraging alternative treatments... which are the best option for success anyway.
Docs usually don't know or won't recommend any alternative treatments or simply don't take the time with their patients to explore them. We in turn trust(ed) the docs and were mislead by Big Pharma to believe that these drugs are safe and effective....

A LOT of work still to be done....
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