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[Buxy`s Back]

My whole point in this thread was that LL was obviously letting off steam and trusting us to pour his heart out in the way he has been feeling of late,and yes i have been there many times.The reason i posted whehn i was so bad was for company,compassion and a big shoulder to lean on and i was under the impression this is what LL was doing to!!! coping the best way he could at a point where just dealing and coping wasnt enough.Then i read peeps basically sayin he wasn,t trying enough to pull himself out of the hole,well i for one know that some days no amount of coping or thought changing is gonna get ya there,its chemical and thats the bottom line.Y es we all have days when we can get some enjoyment out of this hell hole and days that are easier to go and get involved in things but im sorry you have all lived them days of total despair and ranted and raved and imo that alone can get ya through another day.
The fact that LL felt he could share his deepest thoughts and feelings i thought said a lot for all of us,it said trust and friendship and i felt some of the comments were harsh and not called for,i think understanding and just being here for him at that time would of gotten him through this spot.
Ithink we all do all we can in this hell,none of us sit around feeling sorry for ourselves if we were this way inclined then we wouldnt be in withdrawal we would be sat around happy that a drug was making us null and void.
I respect and honour anyone that endures withdrawal that alone says we DO cope and ARE coping and dealing with it the best way we know how,bloody hell if i havnt learnt any coping skills in 26 mths then why am i still doing it?
We all know this hell is out of our control,its chemical,not imaginary and no amount of talking or doing is gonna put that balance right.
Im sorry we all know sometimes all we can do is reach out for support but it dont mean we have given up or we are not trying,some days its all too much to take and i think if we are not allowed these times then what are we all about?,and no this isnt all about me either i feel im picking up here something that has bothered me for ages but i got arcy when i had to see LL being undermined here too,if that makes me a bad person then hey .......im bad.
LL hope ya doing ok mate,hang in there this will pass and the woods wont have so many trees

[LCrawford67]

I understand your point, Jo and I understand LL's. I can't fathom what you're going through after all this time. I really pray you'll feel better, soon. I honestly don't want to see anyone get back on another SSRI, but until I've walked a mile in their shoes, I can't really comment.

All I can do is cheer you on and let you know I'm thinking about you and praying for you.

[Katesmom]

I understand what your saying, Joanne. And, I don't want to make anyone feel badly or be argumentative. I do think that sometimes we go along in our lives and keep doing the same thing and getting the same result. LL has to use his own judgement about that, but I feel that I would be remiss if I didn't point out the possibility that that MAY be an issue. Then again, you could be dead on and it may just be an issue of waiting out the misery. He has to judge that as I cannot. However, he has said of late that pep talks don't do it for him anymore, so I don't want to waste either of our time on that. I tried to give constructive and thoughtful suggestions for his consideration. He is absolutely free to think, "That's just not where I'm at right now." Of course, that is perfectly fine. This site is just as beneficial when we don't just ditto each other as when we all agree.

[rdjanis]

Originally Posted by Katesmom

Frankly, this is what it boils down to. Leave it to Julie to put it down the the bareboned facts! True, though.

Julie has a way of doing that!! LOL

[rdjanis]

LL, many many people are and have been where you are today. The day will come where you will get a glimpse of light, some hope, and you will use what strength you have to move forward.

But I have to say, if you just sit and wait it is not going to happen, I mean, literally there were days I picked my daughter off the chair and said we are changing the thought patterns here. It was easier, she was only a child. As an adult you have to do that all by yourself, no one can do it for you. But if you use at least an hour a day where you don't let any ****ty thoughts in your life will improve drastically. And yes, you won't always be able to do this, but at least 75% of the time you will. Those days you are successful will give you the strength to go forward.

Sorry you are hurting.

[Amaya's Nana]

Originally Posted by rdjanis

But if you use at least an hour a day where you don't let any ****ty thoughts in your life will improve drastically. And yes, you won't always be able to do this, but at least 75% of the time you will. Those days you are successful will give you the strength to go forward.

Rita -- this is so true. When you get the okay days, that's when the coping skills and the positive talk help. You may not "feel" it when you're in the darkest hole of depression, but I really believe as the dark holes lift and you've taught yourself in the okay days to change your thinking, it does really help.

[Buxy`s Back]

all i can say is ok then im dizzy,im nauseous ,i don`t feel human,i have aching limbs,i can`t make sense out of reality,my arms are burning,i can`t see straight,i feel brain damaged but hang on ........ ill drag myself off my chair and go LIVE hey wheres the nearest party? if i go boogy on down all this **** will be forgotten yeah right whateva im outta here as im a nagative person obviously,i only have negative thoughts coz obviously some days my quality of life is **** and hey my new brain chemicals can be chaged by thought,i never was a quitter im a fighter alweays have been always will be but hey if ya have to feel positive 24/7 to be here then see ya not possible have fun folks

[rdjanis]

Yes, I believe it really does as well.

[rdjanis]

Originally Posted by joanne

all i can say is ok then im dizzy,im nauseous ,i don`t feel human,i have aching limbs,i can`t make sense out of reality,my arms are burning,i can`t see straight,i feel brain damaged but hang on ........ ill drag myself off my chair and go LIVE hey wheres the nearest party? if i go boogy on down all this **** will be forgotten yeah right whateva im outta here as im a nagative person obviously,i only have negative thoughts coz obviously some days my quality of life is **** and hey my new brain chemicals can be chaged by thought,i never was a quitter im a fighter alweays have been always will be but hey if ya have to feel positive 24/7 to be here then see ya not possible have fun folks

Why are you angry at us about that? Who said you have to be positive 24/7, no one.....

Take care Joanne, maybe I should read this whole thread over, maybe I missed something?

[Katesmom]

Originally Posted by rdjanis

But if you use at least an hour a day where you don't let any ****ty thoughts in your life will improve drastically. And yes, you won't always be able to do this, but at least 75% of the time you will. Those days you are successful will give you the strength to go forward.

Originally Posted by Joanne

if ya have to feel positive 24/7 to be here then see ya not possible have fun folks

And this is how we run into problems, folks!!!! We do not have the benefit of looking into kind and sympathetic eyes or smiling faces, so we MUST really, really read what the other person is saying and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Joanne, I made a point of telling you that I understand and appreciate ALL of your points. You don't even have to reciprocate, which clearly you won't be. Rita specifically said that forcing yourself to feel great all of the time is an impossibility.

Let's not go out of our way to be argumentative. Everyone has the same goal here--helping each other on the path to recovery. Please, let's take it easy on each other. Joanne, if you need a break, there is nothing wrong with that, but know that the people here love and value you.

[Amaya's Nana]

Originally Posted by joanne

all i can say is ok then im dizzy,im nauseous ,i don`t feel human,i have aching limbs,i can`t make sense out of reality,my arms are burning,i can`t see straight,i feel brain damaged but hang on ........ ill drag myself off my chair and go LIVE hey wheres the nearest party? if i go boogy on down all this **** will be forgotten yeah right whateva im outta here as im a nagative person obviously,i only have negative thoughts coz obviously some days my quality of life is **** and hey my new brain chemicals can be chaged by thought,i never was a quitter im a fighter alweays have been always will be but hey if ya have to feel positive 24/7 to be here then see ya not possible have fun folks

Jo -- I don't believe ANYONE is suggesting that we just ignore how we're feeling and push ourselves beyond our limits to force ourselves to get well. You cannot force yourself to feel better. What you can do though, is have control over your thoughts. Some days you're better at it than others. I watched my dear brother-in-law tinker on the brink of death from cancer; he was sick as a dog from chemo and a bone marrow transplant. What was his advantage in overcoming it??? He REFUSED to let cancer beat him. That is proof positive to me that our thoughts CAN be controlled and ultimately decide our destiny. Did he feel like thinking positive and believe the best? No, he felt like dying!!!!!

Goodness knows after 26 months if grueling withdrawal, you're tired and ready to get on with your life. Having anger about your situation is okay. Its in fact healthy. Its when we let our anger and self-defeating thoughts control us that we continually find ourselves in the pit of despair.

Please don't go away angry. We're all in this together and trying to help each other the only way we know how.

[LossLeader]

Hey Jo, I know exactly what you mean, as you know. I'm finding it easier to make sense of this positive thinking stuff today, because I've had a more bearable day - last night trying to deal with the hell through being positive would have been like trying to stop a charging rhino with a fly swatter. I think for the moment it's more about seizing onto the times when things are more bearable, and trying to keep hold of those as insurance against the really bad days... so that when things are at their worst you can keep a bit of your brain saying "hold on... it IS possible to feel a bit better, therefore it IS possible to GET better." I don't think those of us who are having it rough can really do anything at all when we're down in the depths, but when things are rough we tend to forget the times when we've felt a little bit better, even if it was just for a few hours. OK it's no help when we're screaming and shaking, but I guess it's a tiny bit of hope, which is something to cling to when every part of your brain and body is making you feel like there is NO hope. That kind of positive thinking makes some sense to me.

Anyway, very odd today - I had to see the dentist at lunchtime, because my gums have suddenly receded a lot in the last month or two, and have started really hurting. So I got up and went out to the dentist's, feeling apprehensive (was worried I would lose some teeth), got told that yes I have gum disease and there has been some bone loss, but no my teeth are not going to fall out any time soon, and the problems can be controlled. Came out on a relative high - not just because my teeth are safe for now, but because I was up and about, walking around with some actual purpose. Stopped to play with a cat in the street on the way home, and it was then I started thinking "hmm - this is EXACTLY how I used to feel on pills, and before pills....... normal."

Now, this was because my mind was off the bad stuff - the ongoing physical problems, sexual problems, nervous problems, life situation - I was getting daylight and my mind was on other things. Of course, I got back to my house, sat down and... BANG, here I am back in withdrawal. Sat in the same place, with the same worries.

So three things are clear today:

1. Keeping busy, seeing daylight, having something to do (even if it's seeing the dentist) are good for me.

2. As soon as I stop and remember the underlying issues that withdrawal has left me with, and the general stresses in my life, that good feeling pops like an old balloon.

3. My actual withdrawal symptoms are now mostly physical - yes I still have serious mental issues, but they're at their worst when I'm thinking about my (undeniably lousy) situation. Anxiety and depression are a constant, but I think the times when my mind explodes for no reason at all are getting less common. Now, when I feel really bad, it's a reaction to nightmarish physical symptoms, or the overall state of my life thanks to withdrawal and general bad luck. Of course, the withdrawal itself will magnify that misery many times over, and my "baseline" is still a LOT lower than it should be, but I think a lot of the panic I've been having recently is situational anxiety much worsened by withdrawal, not just pure withdrawal. Yeah I'm still dizzy, in pain a lot of the time, incapable of a normal life, but if I can believe that this is mostly what's making me so depressed, then at least I can feel that the nonsensical mental horror of withdrawal is starting to ease up, even if I don't actually feel much better yet.

That's progress I suppose, but of course it's still no reason to throw a party. For instance, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do if I start improving significantly, but still have the sexual problems. Because I know myself well enough to see that an inability to engage in that side of life can NEVER be acceptable here. Even if I felt perfect in every other way, but that symptom carried on, I would still have to think seriously about whether I could continue without going back on something, albeit at a low dose. That makes me feel AWFUL, of course, because I obviously never want to touch an antidepressant again in my life, but the sad fact is that I need a satisfying sex life - or the *possibility* of a satisfying sex life once I met someone new - to stay sane, never mind happy. I honestly believe that if I hadn't experienced this problem in withdrawal, I would now be able to see a chink of light at the end of the tunnel. That's frustrating.

But on the whole, I have to feel relatively positive today compared to yesterday. Things might turn bad later, as it always seems to get worse as the night drags on, but at least I had another three-hour spell today when mentally at least, I was out of the pit. Whether you look at it long-term or short-term, that can't be anything other than a good thing.

Probably time to stop rambling on about myself now and let this thread fade out... I'll wait and see whether I'm edging into a new window of good (which would be useful, with Christmas coming up) or whether I'm just going into one of those pseudo-bipolar phases where I can feel great in the morning and then feel like death in the evening. Then I'll reassess the situation in the new year. Many thanks to everyone who has been supportive over the last few days... even if things get unbearable again tonight, I'll try and keep my mouth shut for a while and see how it goes.

PS - Something weird, though... as I type now, I can feel the anxiety building, and because it's coming out of a clear blue sky, so to speak, it's less of a sludge than normal, and I can actually see the pattern. A sudden rush of some nasty chemical, a spike of anxiety: and then instinctively, my brain recognises it and says "Yes, that's it. This is my normal condition. Time to dive in" - without any reasoning at all. It's like an instinctive response to anxiety now... rather than fighting it off, my brain subconsciously embraces it, and I guess this is how it breeds and builds. Once the anxiety state has been created, a perverse part of my brain pops up and says "hey, have you forgotten? You can't have sex, possibly not ever again - your life is a mess, and you're about to become a father against your will! Hahahaha!" Which is not so much pouring oil on troubled waters, as dropping Caesium into troubled waters (go here if you don't remember science classes and you don't know what I'm talking about - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEMZoFV_1-M ). Guess this is where therapy comes in. Shame it's another 9 or 10 months before I'll get to see a therapist.

[mstimc]

Originally Posted by joanne

all i can say is ok then im dizzy,im nauseous ,i don`t feel human,i have aching limbs,i can`t make sense out of reality,my arms are burning,i can`t see straight,i feel brain damaged but hang on ........ ill drag myself off my chair and go LIVE hey wheres the nearest party? if i go boogy on down all this **** will be forgotten yeah right whateva im outta here as im a nagative person obviously,i only have negative thoughts coz obviously some days my quality of life is **** and hey my new brain chemicals can be chaged by thought,i never was a quitter im a fighter alweays have been always will be but hey if ya have to feel positive 24/7 to be here then see ya not possible have fun folks

Joanne--

Please don't give up. I've been here just a short time but feel I've been helped tremendously by all the people and comments--negative or positive. We all have something to add and we all have different perspectives. That's part of being honest with each other. I don't try to deny my feelings of hopelessness and frustration, but I try to keep them in perspective. I wasn't like this before, and I won't be like it after I get through this, no matter how long it takes. Some days, that's a lot harder to believe than on other rs, but I know its true!

[Katesmom]

The anxiety is building as you are back at home with no plan or purpose. Time to think on that one.

[rdjanis]

Originally Posted by LossLeader

1. Keeping busy, seeing daylight, having something to do (even if it's seeing the dentist) are good for me.

2. As soon as I stop and remember the underlying issues that withdrawal has left me with, and the general stresses in my life, that good feeling pops like an old balloon.

3. My actual withdrawal symptoms are now mostly physical - yes I still have serious mental issues, but they're at their worst when I'm thinking about my (undeniably lousy) situation. Anxiety and depression are a constant, but I think the times when my mind explodes for no reason at all are getting less common. Now, when I feel really bad, it's a reaction to nightmarish physical symptoms, or the overall state of my life thanks to withdrawal and general bad luck. Of course, the withdrawal itself will magnify that misery many times over, and my "baseline" is still a LOT lower than it should be, but I think a lot of the panic I've been having recently is situational anxiety much worsened by withdrawal, not just pure withdrawal.

Run with it LL.... you know that sitting and worrying is causing some of the symptoms. Get out when you can, make a list of small things to do, even if it is to go look at scenery for 15 minutes daily. Take control of your anxiety, don't let it control you.

Your post put a huge smile on my face!!

[scotty]

Loss, your last post is a perfect example of you never know what is going to end up being positive. Heck, who would have thought that going to the dentist would be a good thing!!! But you just never know until you try. Good for you!!!

[safarigal]

LL

That is a fantastic post!

Print it out and read it every day! Read it when you are feeling down!

What you just said is so very important!

[ayjay]

Hi Guys,
Haven't been around here for a while but I posted about experiencing something similar to those black holes when listening to music awhile ago. Whenever that happens I always remember the words of Terrap - "Don't look the Carny in the eye!" Sounds silly but it's seemed to work for me. Alto's right - it is possible to ignore those thoughts if you just practise not indulging them, then they seem to recede.