Breathing

[samantha]

So I have been doing this stanford research thing on breathing therapy and learned a few things, although the study over all has been stressful for me and hard to continue.

It is a misconception that breathing deeply helps because if you breath too deeply you end up over breathing (hyperventalating) and your pC02 levels drop which can cause anxiety & so forth. If you breathe too slowly on the other hand and not deeply enough your C02 levels will rise (hypoventalating) which can cause a shortness feeling of breath and so forth.

So ultimately the key is learning to breathe shallowly so that you get enough air and your C02 levels reach a rate of something like 40. I have this little monitor thing that shows me my levels that I hook up when I practice this stuff and ultimately I suck at it because I always seem to breathe too deeply I guess. And of course as most people know you have to breathe from your diaphram which most of us don't do either. But the shallow breathing was definately intriguing to me because I always thought it was good to breathe deeply for calming which in fact isn't necessarily the case I suppose...

[Kat]

My hubby & I have been doing the Calm Breathing/Abdominal Breathing for months & have never ahd a problem hyperventilating. Which usually happens when you breathe too quickly & shallowly.

If you look in the files at the directions it tells you that if you do happen to feel light-headed while doing the exercise to stop & breathe normally for a while.
The exercise also has you count to 5 on your inhale & exhale which gives you some type of control over how rapid your breathing is.

It might also help if you plan on doing breathing exercises to have a cd to guide your breathing if you concerned about problems.

Hope this helps
Kat

[Amaya's Nana]

I don't know what the stanford research thing is, but its been my experience that deep, cleansing breaths from your diaphragm truly nip anxiety in the bud and actually promotes calmness. I know a lot of professionals and authors who agree with this. Shallow breathing has ALWAYS caused me to have panic attacks.

[Kat]

btw - my info comes from The Anxiety & Phobia Workbook 4th Edition by Edmund J. Bourne. So does the Breathing exercises. In there it says the breathing has a physiological effect which helps relax the body, hence hellping stave off a anxiety attack.
My hubby also uses it when he gets depressed or I use it when I am having trouble sleeping.
Please understand I'm not trying to dismiss whatever research you ddi on your project - just tell you what has worked for us.

It hink if you really start worrying about how much co2 or o2 you are getting & are concerned about hyper or hypoventilating you are settingyour self up for more anticipatory anxiety which is defeating the whole purpose of the breathing exercise.
Kat

[Casey1231]

Hi Samantha,

I must respectfully question these statements as well. The tool of using slow deep breathing to calm and center has been around for centuries, especially if you look at the yogic traditions, it has been thousands of years. I'm not sure how they arrived at their conclusions, but I can tell you as an ER nurse for 12 years I have literally seen countless people in an anxious state who are breathing too fast, they are the ones who eliminate too much CO2 and go into an alkalotic state. That's why they need to breathe slowly into a paper bag, to get more CO2 into their bloodstream. Some of the symptoms of respiratory alkalosis ( which comes from hyperventilating) are anxiety, numbness and tingling of the hands, light-headedness, etc. I have never seen anyone come in anxious because they were breathing too slowly or too deeply.

It is true that breathing too slowly and too shallowly will cause a rise in CO2 levels, which can lead to a serious complication of acidosis, but I have never, ever seen this in someone who got it from slow, deep breathing as a way to calm down. It is predominantly in COPD patients who get too much oxygen, trauma patients, people with altered levels of consciousness as a result of injury or severe illness, etc.

I think the key is more the speed of respirations than the depth of respirations. Also keep in mind that out of 24 hours a day, the vast majority of us are only consciously doing deep slow breathing for a fraction of that time, and our bodies are constantly striving for a state of acid-base balance and equilibrium. If we do have fluctuations in our CO2 levels, a healthy body will compensate with other mechanisms to regulate it. There are meditators who literally sit in meditation for many hours a day for days, weeks even months on end who suffer no ill effects, indeed they universally report greater feelings of calm, peace and clarity.

I have found that when I do slow conscious breathing, some of my breaths are deep and some tend to be more shallow - my body knows when it needs to take a deep breath. Again, it is the speed of the breaths that centers me and calms me the most.

I hope you don't think I am being dismissive of your comments here, I respect that you are very intelligent and I'm sure there is some scientific basis to your findings. I just feel that learning to center and calm myself with my breaths has been one of the most beneficial things in my struggle with anxiety, and I wouldn't want someone to abandon their practice out of fear that it could cause them harm.

I would be interested in seeing a link to these studies if you have one to post.

Thanks again for sharing this with us.

[samantha]

Let me specify, I think I may have worded this wrong. They did not say to breathe quickly, quite the opposite. I think the ultimate rate is something like 9 breaths a second, it is the way that you breath on top of the rate that seems to be what is improper. The desired levls are 9 breaths a second at C02 of 40...if that makes more sense

[Kat]

I just timed my resting breathing rate & it was 9 breaths per 25 seconds.
So indeed if you are breathing 9 breaths a secong you are infact hyperventilating & if you are 9 per minute - well I can't even imagine beathing that slowly.
I think there might be a typo in that last post or the info is askew.

[samantha]

Crap 9 breaths a minute not second

[Casey1231]

I know the general nursing guidelines consider normal adult breathing to be between 15-20 breaths per minute, under 12 and above 25 is usually considered abnormal. So the 9 per minute rate seems pretty low, I wonder what they are basing their parameters on? Interesting...

[samantha]

I have no idea, I know this is supposed to be the way that you breath in relaxed states, not when your walking around or what not...who knows...I'll ask some questions, I'm going to see them today

[samantha]

or at least the way they want you to train yourself to breathe in relaxed states

[Kat]

Just for you I'll count my hubby's breaths while he sleeps tonight & give you a count of a completely relaxed person. But 9 sounds WAY too slow.

[cinderella]

Ive just been to cbt and we talked about breathing. As we mostly breath at the chest this area becomes tight with anxious people. I am trying to breath from the diaphragm but its hard, I can get more air in my lungs the other way, but then I guess the diaphragm is tight from underuse. I cant imagine walking around breathing naturally from down there though which is what we are ment to do apparently!

[Songbird]

I have been to a breathing physiotherapist who explained to me about deep breathing. Deep breathing is breathing into the bottom of your lungs using your abdominal muscles. Shallow breathing is breathing into the top of your lungs using your chest muscles.

Most people confuse deep breathing with big breathing. Deep breathing is calming, but big breathing can cause you to hyperventilate. Taking smaller breaths (not shallow breaths) can help if you are hyperventilating.

Normal breathing rate is 8 to 14 breaths per minute, over 14 you are probably hyperventilating.

She taught me an exercise to lie on my back with a 1 kg bag of rice on my tummy and breathe using abdominal muscles, the bag of rice will go up and down as your tummy moves. This helps to retrain your breathing by focussing on the right breathing muscles.

[Songbird]

She also had a motto 'when in doubt, breathe out'. Exhaling helps to stop hyperventilation. You should never pause after an inhale (hold your breath) but you should always have a little pause after an exhale. (The idea is to slow down the rate that you are losing carbon dioxide from the body).

I know all this because I had really bad hyperventilation syndrome (at the same time as post-natal anxiety).

[Casey1231]

Thanks all, I really can relate to this thread. Years of anxiety (pre-paxil) always left me so tense, my diaphragm was just tight as a drum, and I did that chest breathing, never felt like I could get enough air, my shoulders were up to my ears with tension all the time, etc.

Now as I wean, and some anxiety returns, I am working on improving my breathing patterns. Sometimes when I feel that tightness I actually lay down (if I can) and massage my diaphragm area (right below my rib cage) and it helps to loosen it up and relieves tension. Then I work on slow, deep breathing. I like the idea of the rice bag, I will try that!

[cinderella]

So if you practice this diaphragm breathing it will start to occur naturally? Im definetely doing it from the top and my body is wracked with tension. I cant get much air in doing it the d way but I guess as things stretch it will improve? I did it quite a bit yesteday and my tummy is sore today!

[Songbird]

[quote=Casey1231;374960]breathing patterns. Sometimes when I feel that tightness I actually lay down (if I can) and massage my diaphragm area (right below my rib cage) and it helps to loosen it up and relieves tension. /QUOTE]

I do this sometimes too! I massage my whole tummy area, to try to get the tension out of the abdominal muscles.

[Songbird]

Whoops, blast, my quote thingy didn't work!!