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Health Challenges Anxiety, depression, OCD, headaches, weight and more.

Adverse Drug Reaction Reporting    FDA Warnings    Published Withdrawal Studies    Pregnancy Warnings    Forum Psychology

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Old 09-27-2007, 10:50 AM   #1
SDAVIS
 
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light colored stools

This is the second time during w/d that I have experienced long bout (2 weeks) of light colored stools and extreme fatigue. I have only read a few posts that discuss this symptom of w/d. I am just hoping someone can expound on whether or not this is common in w/d.??

Getting really worried about what else may be causing it if it is not w/d. Any comments welcome.
Thanks
Stan
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:28 PM   #2
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Re: light colored stools

I had it early on. I think it has to do with the liver, but I am no expert on this.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:42 PM   #3
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Re: light colored stools

Hi Kim:

I am pretty sure it is bile related....but I had been somewhat reassured when I read a few other older posts concerning this as a w/d symtom. BUT, I guess not a lot of people have experienced it. You know....not in the same way they have acknowledged the neurological side effects.

Anyway, I guess I will just take solice in the fact that there a few who have reported it.
Thanks
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:54 PM   #4
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Re: light colored stools

I get this occasionally. I thought it was diet-related (which can do this, people have told me), but due to food allergies I'm on a very limited diet eating mostly the same foods and that wouldn't explain getting this, so the liver/bile theory is interesting.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:27 PM   #5
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Re: light colored stools

Stan, you have a gallbladder and IBS issue here too, so don't ascribe all of this to w/d. You need to count out those issues first.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:51 PM   #6
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Re: light colored stools

Laurie:

That's just it! I do not have a gallbladder! They removed it (the old fashion way) 20 years ago. Now I am thinking it could be scar tissue or some other form of blockage to the bile duct. I would much prefer to ascribe it to w/d if it can be a legitimate w/d symptom. That is why, although few in number, I was somewhat relieved to think it might be w/d and not some other structural issue.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:55 PM   #7
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Re: light colored stools

That's what I mean, Stan. You don't have a gallbladder, so it's something you need to rule out, as it can be more serious than a w/d symptom. You said you were suffering from constipation. Constipation isn't a w/d effect, I can assure you.

That certainly doesn't mean it's something serious, or that some of this isn't w/d related. But, based on your history, I'd rule out other things first.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:58 PM   #8
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Re: light colored stools

Of course, if things are improving since our last conversation, that's a good sign and it may have been one of those things. I'm not trying to freak you out. It's just, if you have a history of these things, and based on our conversations, you should be sure of what it is.
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:10 PM   #9
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Re: light colored stools

I do have a history of this, but when I think back over the past 12 years, there seems to have been a correlation between those times when I inadvertently stopped or missed dosages and this condition. It's just that on the 40 mgs of Paxil , I probably never thought to make the connection. That's whats so stupid. All these years of being on Paxil and all the while suffering from various malodies , I NEVER thought to make a connection to missing dosages . BUT, I think now looking back that it may have been at those same times. I did read older posts from "zappelina" and banjo boy that they had experienced this. SO, I was just trying to feel reassured a little.

BUT, I did go to the doctor yesterday and he ran some more liver panel blood tests. I guess if they are normal, it has to be w/d
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:02 PM   #10
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Re: light colored stools

You know, I never say never when it comes to w/d. But, I am glad you went to the doc, just to be sure.

Don't let it worry you too much, Stan. Once the test results come back, you'll have peace of mind and can move on from here.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:06 PM   #11
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Re: light colored stools

yes..dont worry too much..i did notice that Zappelina experienced this in withdrawal...i read it in the 6 month discontinuation post!!..and she had them alot!!

michele
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:46 PM   #12
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Re: light colored stools

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCrawford67 View Post
Constipation isn't a w/d effect, I can assure you.
Uh, it was for me AND while on Paxil. Ain't so in this benzo wean, though.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:48 PM   #13
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Re: light colored stools

Well, there ya go! Lisa had to throw a wrench into the works! LOL!!

On Paxil, it was a problem, but sure as heck not in w/d!!
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:53 PM   #14
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Re: light colored stools

i have always had problems with constipation..lol..but the last 4 weeks have been alot better since i have been using the magnesium..now i have the opposite..i had to cut back...

michele
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:58 PM   #15
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Re: light colored stools

I'm glad you got the tests done, just to make sure. This is a long shot, but have you had any changes in your diet lately? The reason I ask is that long ago, a friend of mine went from eating meat to a macrobiotic vegetarian diet and told me in amazement that her stools were white. I'm a long-time vegetarian and used to having light colored stools, especially when I used to eat a vegan diet, I believe.

Even if you haven't cut out meat, it shows that what you eat can have a visible effect.
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4/27/06 - 10 mg
5/17/06 - 5 mg (none 5/20)
5/21-24/06 - 2.5 mg (5/22 - none)
5/25/06 - d/cd paroxetine
Felt better than in years, then gradual WD symptoms
6/17/06 - Bolted awake in blind terror, started E-ticket ride to hell
2010 - Leaving hell for balmier climate!
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:36 PM   #16
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Re: light colored stools

the whole white stool thing freaks me out..and only now because my friend is dying of liver cancer..and she has that..but i would never have know that you can have it due to diet ect!!..

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Old 09-29-2007, 02:13 AM   #17
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Re: light colored stools

Michele, I'm so very sorry to hear about your friend's illness.

And clearly when light color stools are from diet or even w/d, that's a whole other thing. Shows not to be alarmed necessarily when things seem strange, since it could be caused by something as simple as not eating meat. Not saying things shouldn't be checked out, they should - but my friend's alive and well some thirty-five years later.

(She gave up the macrobiotic thing, though. Likewise the Mary Quant makeup!)
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5/93 - Started paxil after 6 years sensory distortions from benzo WD/low-dose reinst.+chronic medical problems/pain -
20 mg/day; yrs later 15 mg
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4/21/06 - 15 mg
4/27/06 - 10 mg
5/17/06 - 5 mg (none 5/20)
5/21-24/06 - 2.5 mg (5/22 - none)
5/25/06 - d/cd paroxetine
Felt better than in years, then gradual WD symptoms
6/17/06 - Bolted awake in blind terror, started E-ticket ride to hell
2010 - Leaving hell for balmier climate!
(Still on my pre-paxil 0.5 mg clonazepam)
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Old 09-29-2007, 09:43 PM   #18
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Re: light colored stools

Stools can vary so much day-to-day. I have two dogs who get the same exact kibble every day. Granted, there may be a different tidbit or table scrap each day, but for the most part, same-old, same-old. And no two piles look exactly alike. Especially the ones with bits of Crayola crayons or tissues in them. LOL

Margaret
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:09 PM   #19
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Re: light colored stools

The stool gets its color from bile and from blood cells. Lack of color could mean that the bile is not flowing and this might be due to sluggish liver or pancreas. Among many other things, serotonin dysregulation can cause this. An herbal tea for digestion or milk thistle can help get bile flowing.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:43 AM   #20
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Re: light colored stools

Milk thistle is normally very good for the liver, but I've gotten very concerned about interactions between this (and other herbs) and medications. I found out from an excellent herbal company that St. John's wort can speed medications through the liver. And when researching milk thistle some time back because I was concerned that its liver cleansing properties could do the same, I found this on a site for HIV patients, but it does refer to paxil specifically, as well as other meds some of us are on:

Quote:
Canadian AIDS Treatment Information Exchange
A Warning About Milk Thistle and Drug Interactions

June 12, 2001

The seeds of the milk thistle plant are commonly used to protect the liver from damage caused by hepatitis viruses as well as alcohol and other substances. Compounds found in milk thistle -- sylibin, sylimarin -- act as antioxidants and also stimulate the repair of the liver. But now it appears that these and possibly other compounds in milk thistle can have other effects.
Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh have suspected that milk thistle can slow down or reduce the activity of enzymes in the liver. What does this have to do with HIV? you might ask. Well, enzymes in the liver break down many of the substances that we eat and drink, including medications. If the activity of these enzymes are reduced, then drugs remain in the blood longer than they otherwise might. This could lead to having higher-than-expected levels of drugs in the body, causing side effects or intensifying already-existing side effects. Indeed, in recent experiments using milk thistle and human liver cells, the researchers found that relatively small concentrations of milk thistle did significantly slow down the activity of the liver enzyme CYP3A4 by 50% to 100%.

Many medications taken by people with HIV/AIDS (PHAs) -- such as protease inhibitors and non-nukes -- are processed by this liver enzyme. If milk thistle is taken by someone using protease inhibitors or non-nukes, it has the potential to raise levels of these drugs, causing unpleasant or even dangerous side effects. Below is a short list of some other medications that are processed through the CYP3A4 enzyme. Levels of these medications may increase if taken by people who are also using milk thistle. This list is not exhaustive:

methadone

heart drugs -- Tambocor (flecainide), Rythmol (propafenone)

antibiotics -- erythromycin, rifampin

anti-seizure drugs -- carbamazepine (Tegretol)

antidepressants -- St. John's wort, Zyban/Wellbutrin (bupropion), Paxil (paroxetine), Prozac (fluoxetine), Luvox (fluvoxetine) Serzone (nefazodone), Zoloft (sertraline), Effexor (venlafaxine)

antihistamines -- Hismanal (astemizole), Seldane (terfenadine)

antifungals -- itraconazole (Sporanox), Ketoconazole (Nizoral)

gastrointestinal motility agents -- Prepulsid (Cisapride)

ergot drugs -- Ergonovine, Ergomar (ergotamine)

anti-psychotics -- Clozaril (clozapine), Orap (pimozide)

sedatives/sleeping pills -- Ambien (zolpidem), Halcion (triazolam), Versed (midazolam)

lipid-lowering drugs (statins) -- Lescol (fluvastatin), Mevacor (lovastatin), Pravachol (pravastatin) and Zocor (simvastatin), Baycol (cerivastatin)

transplant drugs -- cyclosporine (Neoral, Sandimmune), ProGraf (tacrolimus)

Milk thistle also has the potential to lower levels of the following drugs:

anti-parasite drugs -- Mepron (atovaquone)

sedatives/sleeping pills -- Ativan (lorazepam)

hormones - estrogen
The research by the scientists in Pittsburgh should emphasize to readers that simply because a product is "natural" it does not mean it is safe when taken with other substances. This research also shows the need to conduct further research on herb-drug interactions on liver cells as well as in people. Such studies may find combinations of herbs and drugs that can be safely used together.

The Pittsburgh researchers noted that "patients and health care professionals must be encouraged to discuss the use of herbs and be educated about the potential interactions between herbs and drugs." This cannot be stressed enough.

Reference
Venkataramanan R, Ramachandran V, Komoroski BJ, et al. Milk thistle, a herbal supplement, decreases the activity of CYP3A4 and uridine diphosphoglucuronosyl transferase in human hepatocyte cultures. Drug Metabolism and Disposition 2000;28(11):1270-1273.

This article was provided by Canadian AIDS Treatment Information Exchange.
The URL for this article is: http://www.thebody.com/content/art30215.html

I'm a great believer in herbs, but am very careful of them even sixteen months off paxil, and think particular care might need to be taken while still on paxil and while tapering.
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5/93 - Started paxil after 6 years sensory distortions from benzo WD/low-dose reinst.+chronic medical problems/pain -
20 mg/day; yrs later 15 mg
3/30/06 - 20 mg
4/21/06 - 15 mg
4/27/06 - 10 mg
5/17/06 - 5 mg (none 5/20)
5/21-24/06 - 2.5 mg (5/22 - none)
5/25/06 - d/cd paroxetine
Felt better than in years, then gradual WD symptoms
6/17/06 - Bolted awake in blind terror, started E-ticket ride to hell
2010 - Leaving hell for balmier climate!
(Still on my pre-paxil 0.5 mg clonazepam)
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:42 AM   #21
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Re: light colored stools

Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingtoGetWell View Post
Milk thistle is normally very good for the liver, but I've gotten very concerned about interactions between this (and other herbs) and medications. I found out from an excellent herbal company that St. John's wort can speed medications through the liver. ....I'm a great believer in herbs, but am very careful of them even sixteen months off paxil, and think particular care might need to be taken while still on paxil and while tapering.
Almost all herbs should be avoided during withdrawal, but there also has to be some caution exercised in following the recommendations of incomplete and biased research. Anyone trying a new treatment should look at all of the research as well as the history and safety of the treatment before trying it. The enzyme that's mentioned in the above study is not the only liver enzyme that metabolizes drugs; and the conclusion seems to be derived from the the fact that this one enzyme level decreased with the use of milk thistle. There is no mention of whether the patients showed visible signs of decreased metabolism. So I can't connect the dots and I would look further into this before reaching the same conclusion. Was this research posted by the same company that promotes the use of St. John's Wort to speed medications through the liver?
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:04 PM   #22
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Re: light colored stools

Silence, I didn't make myself clear in my previous post. I apologize for that. I don't know of any company promoting using St. J's wort for speeding meds throught the liver. When I was at my worst in paxil w/d and hoping St. J's wort might help me, I contacted the herbalist at Gaia herbs, the manufacturer of the preparation I had recently started taking in minute, "baby" doses to start.

She is very knowledgeable and was concerned because I'm still on some clonazepam, and she said that they've found St. J's wort can hasten some meds through the liver, and if one is still on meds that can be a problem! She informed me that if you're on meds you need to be taking, you might lose (desired) effect from them by taking St. J's wort and some other herbs also, and was warning me about that. I was so glad she did, and stopped taking the St. John's wort immediately.

The site that posted that research is one I found through googling about this (there are others), and has no connection whatsoever that I'm aware of with Gaia Herbs, which by the way I find to be an extremely reliable herbal manufacturer that also has done groundbreaking research in herbs that (among other things) explain why some forms of echinacea is very effective and others ineffective, deflecting common scoffing at echinacea's effectiveness.

For the record, I have absolutely no commercial relationship with Gaia; I just have found their research and advice extremely useful and buy their products.

As for the milk thistle, I started taking that during the last years on paxil; it was advised by my integrative medicine doctor for treatment of heavy metal toxicity (alone with chelation and other supplements). It was during the last years on paxil that I started having a number of changes (good and bad) in the effects of paxil, after about ten years on the med. It really didn't seem to be poop out (I hd no w/d symptoms even though I think I had less beneficial effects but increase in some side effects, like hypersomnia), but certainly changes in my body's response. I've been assuming it was due to changing from brand name to generic, which certainly may have been a factor, but for some time I've been wondering if the milk thistle I'd started taking regularly also affected things - I've been wondering about this after reading other articles online long ago about interactions between milk thistle and meds. I only found the one I posted in this thread just recently.

I think one has to use trial and error in determining what supplements they can take, but because I believe so strongly in herbal therapy and know that they are indeed effective (and generally a far safer form of therapy than medications), I think it's important for people to realize that once they're on meds there may well be interactions and to be alert for them, and to err on the side of caution, for some time after being medication-free. The problem here isn't the herbs (if they're a quality brand), it's the meds. But while still on meds and for some time afterward, one does have to exercise cautions one normally wouldn't, in my experience. Unfortunately!
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5/93 - Started paxil after 6 years sensory distortions from benzo WD/low-dose reinst.+chronic medical problems/pain -
20 mg/day; yrs later 15 mg
3/30/06 - 20 mg
4/21/06 - 15 mg
4/27/06 - 10 mg
5/17/06 - 5 mg (none 5/20)
5/21-24/06 - 2.5 mg (5/22 - none)
5/25/06 - d/cd paroxetine
Felt better than in years, then gradual WD symptoms
6/17/06 - Bolted awake in blind terror, started E-ticket ride to hell
2010 - Leaving hell for balmier climate!
(Still on my pre-paxil 0.5 mg clonazepam)
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Old 10-10-2007, 03:14 AM   #23
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Re: light colored stools

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaya's Nana View Post
Uh, it was for me AND while on Paxil. Ain't so in this benzo wean, though.

Yep! Had diarrhea first and now constipation. The guts stop moving. Never had constipation in my life other than in withdrawal but lately its been really bad.,
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2004 tapered Zoloft too quickly after sudden onset of muscle stiffness and extreme restlessness on full dose. Severe and prolonged WD problem with a long list of symptoms. Considerable mental but very little physical improvement so far. Last Zoloft dose April 18 2004.
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