Going back on. Prozac or Celexa?

[angelwings]

Ok, I'm going back on. I am sick of spending all my time trying to figure out how to not want to die. I am sick of being scared of some mysterious looming disaster, and feeling like there is no hope.

So I'm told it's cuz I went cold turkey. So now I want to go back on. My question is, do I have to go back on the same drug or can I go back to Prozac? I liked Prozac better, and I think I had less trouble with it. (Although I was going cold turkey at least once a month the whole time I was on it, because I'd skip doses.)

Comments, anyone?

[Johnnny off Paxil]

Originally Posted by angelwings

Ok, I'm going back on. I am sick of spending all my time trying to figure out how to not want to die. I am sick of being scared of some mysterious looming disaster, and feeling like there is no hope.

So I'm told it's cuz I went cold turkey. So now I want to go back on. My question is, do I have to go back on the same drug or can I go back to Prozac? I liked Prozac better, and I think I had less trouble with it. (Although I was going cold turkey at least once a month the whole time I was on it, because I'd skip doses.)

Comments, anyone?

I would stay away from the Celexa..remember going back on may not work either..it didn't work for Leo..so don't be disappointed if it does happen.

Otherwise go back on the monimal dose and then take your time tapering...it may take you a year to accomplish this... so a ton of patience will be required of you.
All in all, there is no "easy" solution... Good luck and stick to your resolve to get healthy and well.

Regards, Johnny

[angelwings]

Hi, Johnny.

I quit taking the wanderer, partly because I didn't think it was helping, and *mostly* because it felt too much like being on anti-depressants. I was again needing a pill to make it through the day. Funny to think I'm now about to go back on the damn things. I don't know if I can do it, actually. I don't know if I can put that stuff in my body. But I am really, really going insane.

Do you think wanderer actually works?

[Johnnny off Paxil]

Originally Posted by angelwings

Hi, Johnny.

I quit taking the wanderer, partly because I didn't think it was helping, and *mostly* because it felt too much like being on anti-depressants. I was again needing a pill to make it through the day. Funny to think I'm now about to go back on the damn things. I don't know if I can do it, actually. I don't know if I can put that stuff in my body. But I am really, really going insane.

Do you think wanderer actually works?

Yes it does, remember herbs have to be taken over a sustained period of time. Also, issues that the SSRI "has complicated" are nervous system misalignment's.... as I said to my acupuncturist..when it comes to SSRI's..all bets are off, she didn't seem to understand this..in fact i think unless you've done a doctorate in SSRI/ Brain biochemistry..it would be difficult for most people to understand how these drugs affect you....

So by all means I would continue and remember, give it time... it took 4 months for the hawthorn to "kick in"... and when you go on a herbal route, stick with it... so if you've been on it for only a few weeks or a few months..
Right now my herbal protocol is 1 to 2 years...its a long term approach.
In the meantime, look into getting ginseng into your regular daily herbal treatment and start at a small dose...as I said in another post, ginseng seems to be the best in helping with adrenal recovery.
PM me if you want some commercial links.

Regards, Johnny

[angelwings]

I pm'd you... would you mind if I asked more questions about the chinese formula? Would you be willing to check the thread under Methods of Wellbeing?

[Laney]

Hi there,

Johnny, I was just wondering if you can take these herbs while tapering? Like the ginseng? Also, how important in your opinion, because you seem to know so much about ssri's, is it to go slow in the taper?

I'm at 12.5 mg. and don't want to screw up my taper by going too fast.

Thanks,

Laney

[LarryJ]

Originally Posted by Johnnny off Paxil

look into getting ginseng into your regular daily herbal treatment and start at a small dose...as I said in another post, ginseng seems to be the best in helping with adrenal recovery.

Johnny-

What ginseng (type/brand/dose, etc) is best for this?

[Homerbcool]

I urge caution as this thread goes further....in the not to distant past, I am sure that a former member (banned) recommended some form of alternative healing methods which resulted in one of our members becoming quite ill, very ill in fact.....I am no moderator but would hate to see anyone get into trouble or worse yet...get ill

[Johnnny off Paxil]

Originally Posted by Homerbcool

I urge caution as this thread goes further....in the not to distant past, I am sure that a former member (banned) recommended some form of alternative healing methods which resulted in one of our members becoming quite ill, very ill in fact.....I am no moderator but would hate to see anyone get into trouble or worse yet...get ill

Homer..could you find that link please..thanks...

Ginseng will not hurt anyone....but I agree... it is important to be careful.... in fact ..don't believe me..do your own reserach and have a look ..all the info is out there.

Larry I cannot list commercial links here.. PM me....

Regards, Johnny

[Johnnny off Paxil]

Originally Posted by Laney

Hi there,

Johnny, I was just wondering if you can take these herbs while tapering? Like the ginseng? Also, how important in your opinion, because you seem to know so much about ssri's, is it to go slow in the taper?

I'm at 12.5 mg. and don't want to screw up my taper by going too fast.

Thanks,

Laney

With the tapering I would "urge caution".....ginseng is probably ok..but ones body is in such chaos during withdrawal , I would be careful not to get too complicated.

The recommended wean is drop of 10% of your current dose every 3 to 6 weeks, depending on how you feel you can stretche that out longer if you don't feel stable....Laurie can correct me if I got my math wrong on this one...

I used many , many herbs during my withdrawal, some I outright stopped.

I found that some chinese herbs are meant for "medical conditions' and that with SSRI's its a whole different ball game, which few doctors, even the best and most sympathetic understand.
So I dropped them, others I kept

The stuff I ended up dropping
1) licorice root..made me feel nauseous

2) vitamin B therapy, which added to my anxiety
3) fish oil, which got me nervous and agitated
4) chinese herbs for tonifying the heart...made my chest feel weird and tingly
5)noni..which was working great but is a "yang herb" and held back my livers detoxified ability
6) ginger I stopped , because it was too strong..now I use it again, but only in small anmounts
7)aswhaghanda..which affects the 5Htp cycle..so that was out

Non of these "made me gravely ill"... I started using them and when they didn't work, I stopped. Thats one of the good things about herbs, is that they are non- invasive and mild..

So tio answer your question, use your common sense, use the K.I.S.S. principle and if you are going to be serious about herbs, its best to consult a master herbalist, which I have done.

Regards, Johnny

[Katesmom]

AW--

I am curious a little about your history. If you are in celexa withdrawal and it has not been more than eight or twelve weeks since your cold turkey, only celexa is going to help with celexa withdrawal. If it has been many months and you are interested only in restarting and staying on an AD in the long run, then choose whatever med you would prefer to be on long term. Just remember, these drugs are not interchangable. If you are looking to treat withdrawal, then you need to stick with the drug that you are withdrawing from.

As for the herbs, there is a specific reason that we are very, very careful about people recommending specific brands or formulations of any supplements. We do not, as a site, endorse any particular brand or cocktail of supplements. Anything that you take, you do at your own risk. In w/d in particular our systems are challenged. Taking ANYTHING can be too much for some people. It certainly was for me. I would approach anything with caution. And, any recommendations ought to be done off the public forums.

As for the situation that Homer refers to--that is exactly what happened. It is not always so easy to 'cite' these kinds of things because members do not get banned (usually) over things that happen only in public.

[angelwings]

Ok, km, I'll try to sum it up as quickly as I can. In the 1990s I started Prozac because of depression and irritability, which I now think was probably me not being willing to experience feelings. In other words, I used them as a convenient escape, like we use other things known as "addictions."

Anyway, I took Prozac from 1988-2000, approximately. During that time, I skipped regularly for days or weeks at a time, and would always go back on because of symptoms that I figured were proof that I was really crazy, and needed drugs. But I never *really* believed it, which is why I continued skipping doses. We (or at least I) didn't know about withdrawal back then.

During those years, I also developed chronic fatigue/fibromyalgia, which I think might be partly due to the ssri and the constant cold-turkey I subjected myself to. I was also promoted from disthymia, to major depression, to major depression/suicidal, to bipolar, with a little borderline personality thrown in for good measure. (Folks who know me say that's completely wrong.)

Anyway, I quit Prozac "for good" in late 2001, but by the end of 2001 had gone back to the doctor. I'd been having migraines, and thought that it would help, and had also been noticing some irritiablity with my family and I thought "they don't deserve that." (I'd not learned yet to honor my feelings.)

The doc convinced me to try Celexa instead. I tested, one month on, no migraines, one month off, migraines were back, so I went on for good.

Between 2001-2007, I did the same skipping doses thing, only less of it. But by September of 2007, I was in a wonderful place spiritually and emotionally, and had learned a lot, and decided I wanted to be fully present in my body and mind, and quit taking the Celexa.

And y'all already know what happened then.

So to answer your question, I don't want to go back on forever. I don't want to go back on at all. I want to meditate and ride this out, but I get so scared.

Anyway, I skipped a bunch just before I quit, but I took my last dose five months ago. I didn't have a lot of problems immediately after, but now, I'm a mess.

(And of course, my inner psychiatrist is telling me how my brain is defective, and I need drugs to make me resemble a normal, acceptable human being.)

[Katesmom]

Five months is a very typical time for a wave of w/d. Honestly, I would recommend riding it out. I know that it's hard. I've been there. I basically cold turkeyed myself and starting at 4 1/2 months, hell began revisiting me too. But, it passed. Other waves came and went and I survived. Healing is still occurring even when you feel badly. If you go back on something, you will be treating that healing that is so hard-won and you will have to start from scratch.

Having said all of that, only you can determine if what you are enduring is intolerable to you. Only you can make the decision to reinstate.

[angelwings]

I really thought I was sure this time, km, but apparently not. I really appreciate being reminded, especially from somebody who has been there. Really, at 4 1/2 months? And it got better? Can I ask when?!?!?! Ok, I know you can't tell me when this will be better, but I can still try...

I guess that's part of why I stopped the herbs. Because if they help, are they just covering up feelings? Or are they doing what the celexa did in the first place? Delaying my recovery?

Why does this have to be so hard?

[Katesmom]

I can't answer any questions about supplements. They made me feel a thousand percent worse, no matter what it was.

The waves typically come somewhere in the 5-7 month, 9-11 month, 14-16 month, 21-22 month time period. I've seen it echoed in many posts and that was my own experience. It is SO common!!!

For me, I felt horrid for pretty much the first four months, although I did get better and better. For the first couple of weeks of month four, I had my first real window of good. That was followed by bad for about two months. Then, I felt better than I had during that good two week window for longer this time. Then, I had another down time at about eight months for about six weeks. Then, I felt even better than I had before. It just keeps coming and going, but each wave is less intense and each window of good is better and longer. That's what SSRI withdrawal is for most people.

I can't make any guarantees about how long a wave will last, but they DO go and you WILL heal.

As for why it has to be so hard. . .I just don't know. I clung to this mantra provided by Pat Shields--When you are going through hell, keep walking. There were days that I said it over and over and over. But, that is what I did. And, here I am, feeling pretty really great. It takes more time and patience than you can imagine at once. Luckily, you only have to live today today.

Gotta go get up the munchkin. Nap time is over!

[Gibby]

Thought you might like a few of the lyrics from Rodney Atkins song If Your Going Through Hell, it sort of fits with Pat's little mantra.

If your going through hell
Keep on going, don't slow down
If you're scared don't show it
You might get out
Before the devil even knows you're there

But the good news
Is there's angels everywhere out on the street
Holding out a hand to pull you back up on your feet
The one's that you've been dragginig for so long
You're on your knees
You might as well be praying
Guess what I'm saying

If your going through hell
Keep on going, don't slow down
If you're scared don't show it
You might get out
Before the devil even knows you're there

[LCrawford67]

The important thing to remember is, what works for one person, doesn't work for another. Period.

You have to learn from experimenting and listening to your body.

The issue Homer is talking about is over two years old and not worth rehashing, but suffice to say, it's the reason commercial links are not allowed in this forum.

[AntonySandler]

Stay the HELL AWAY FROM CELEXA. Man, if you are off, stay off, and find things that make you happy, or change what you need to change to spin you around till you are feeling happy...

[silence4now]

Originally Posted by angelwings

I really thought I was sure this time, km, but apparently not. I really appreciate being reminded, especially from somebody who has been there. Really, at 4 1/2 months? And it got better? Can I ask when?!?!?! Ok, I know you can't tell me when this will be better, but I can still try...

I guess that's part of why I stopped the herbs. Because if they help, are they just covering up feelings? Or are they doing what the celexa did in the first place? Delaying my recovery?

Why does this have to be so hard?

FIve months is probably more than half way over the worst of it, if it's similar to a lot of us. Maybe the CT didn't help, but going back on after getting this far seems like a setback.

I'm not sure I understand. If the herbs were like taking the Rx, then why consider going back on the Rx? Are there other concerns about the herbs?

If I had to pick my poison though, I think I would choose Prozac. It has a longer half life which makes it a bit easier for withdrawing, and there are actual protocols for withdrawing from Prozac. No need to go CT.

7)aswhaghanda..which affects the 5Htp cycle..so that was out>>>>

I take ashwaghanda- can you tell me why this is bad ??

[Songbird]

I was wondering about this too, Mango, I hadn't heard of this about ashwagandha before.

Angelwings, I am interested to know what herbs were you taking?

[Johnnny off Paxil]

Originally Posted by Mango

7)aswhaghanda..which affects the 5Htp cycle..so that was out>>>>

I take ashwaghanda- can you tell me why this is bad ??

Its not "bad"....its a great plant , a great herb..in this case it ws a personal choice because "ashwaganda acts like a benzo, in other words acts on the GABA...Gamma- Amino Butyric Acid.. a neuro- transmitter..now because of this its an excellent choice as a "natural anti-anxiety" herb..my question was..is this just like taking a benzo, except in plant form, so I decided not to go down that road and not use any herbs that I felt tampered with the brains neuro- chemistry.

Now if it works for you , fine..just be careful and don't just "stop taking it" I would also wean from this one.
Just because its a plant doesn't mean its any less harmful or risky.

Regards, Johnny

[angelwings]

Originally Posted by Songbird

Angelwings, I am interested to know what herbs were you taking?

It's a chinese formula, and I made a thread about it here: http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/...ad.php?t=33570

I got through today without any Celexa, Prozac, OR chinese herbal formula, and am feeling quite a bit better (though it's still there). And I kept *gasp* seeing glimmers of hope. Weird!

I'm glad I thought of coming here and whining this morning. You peoples awesome.

[leo79]

I had a nasty adverse reaction to celexa last year. I was on it for 3.5 months, 2 of those I was tapering off. This was at month 9 of a CT prozac withdrawal. It was pretty nasty on the Celexa and during early withdrawal ( 1 month ), but then all hell broke loose at around 1.5 months off. I started back on prozac as I thought I wouldn't have to suffer like a dog for a year. Well, the prozac hasn't done ****, and if anything has made things worse and so I'm now tapering that. I 'm really not in a good place either. Just thought I would let you know. If I could go back and have a choice about going back on again, of course I wouldnt. And if things get bad again I'm not taking SSRIs. I would try 5htp, samE, niacin, etc. Any of those are safer than this junk.

[Johnnny off Paxil]

Originally Posted by leo79

I had a nasty adverse reaction to celexa last year. I was on it for 3.5 months, 2 of those I was tapering off. This was at month 9 of a CT prozac withdrawal. It was pretty nasty on the Celexa and during early withdrawal ( 1 month ), but then all hell broke loose at around 1.5 months off. I started back on prozac as I thought I wouldn't have to suffer like a dog for a year. Well, the prozac hasn't done ****, and if anything has made things worse and so I'm now tapering that. I 'm really not in a good place either. Just thought I would let you know. If I could go back and have a choice about going back on again, of course I wouldnt. And if things get bad again I'm not taking SSRIs. I would try 5htp, samE, niacin, etc. Any of those are safer than this junk.

Leo..at least you gave it your best....