back again

[matthew T]

Hi, been off the site for a bit, this place upsets me me so. Anyway, I come here when I am at my worst. I have had some very good days and weeks, so good it was like all of my depression was non existent, I actually forgot what depression felt like ... in the last few weeks I do ok for a few days then the depression comes back hard, with the dark thoughts of eliminating myself, then I think of my wife and kids without me and I get worse.
I am at 200 wellbutrin and 20 lexapro, . Been tapering down the well butrin [ via compounding]. I am convinced those two drugs do me no good on any dosage.
I will continue taper no matter what, and I am asking doctor for lithium. I know it for bi polar but it may help and not as toxix as the other two
One other note, I started Testosterone shots 4 weeks ago, along with HCG, waiting on blood test to see how thats going.
There is something mechanically wrong with my brain. I cut out all bad habist, I excersize [ still drink diets sodas] , do talk therapy.
I know its not good to count on AD meds for help , but I was put on wellbutrin and lexapro and never tried anything else. I Need some freakin relief .
I may change my thyroid medicine dosage way up , despite what the blood test show to see if that makes a difference.
Everytime a phone rings, a door knocks, a dog barks and noises I jump out of my skin, I do not know what that is called.

[Samalabear]

I'm really so sorry it's been crappy for you again. I don't know about the shots, but I do know that if you can ditch that diet soda it would be a good idea. Aspartame is really bad stuff and fuels a lot of problems and could be adding to the depression. And regular soda, forget that, too.

[iwowi]

I am sorry to hear you are not feeling good.

Does tapering by compounding means taking a dose every other day? If yes it is not a good thing to do and may be contributing to your depression. You are in withdrawal due to tapering off the Wellbutrin and that is why you are feeling so low and that is why you are so jumpy. How much of Wellbutrin did you taper so far and what is your taper schedule? Perhaps you need to slow down the tapper if you are feeling so bad.

I would ditch the diet soda as Samalabear suggests. It is a chemical poison.

Remember that what you are feeling now is due to withdrawal and you will not feel like this forever. Take care. I hope you feel better soon.

[Katesmom]

You are tinkering around with so many different pills at this dose and that that it is now impossible to tell what is causing what and what could be changed by any alterations. The variables are just too many. Here is what I suggest: whatever you are supposed to do with your thyroid meds, do it. As for the testosterone and HCG. . .if you were feeling good before you started those things, why would you start them? If you are feeling badly after a short time on them, why would you continue them? Now for the AD tapers. . .slow and steady. I would recommend tapering the wellbutrin first and leaving the lexapro until after you are completely past any wellbutrin issues. Please don't add another drug to the mix. You already have so much going on that you can't even tell how to fix it anymore. If you add another psych drug, you will be so firmly on the med merry-go-round that you truly will never get off. Remember that every drug you add has its own side effects, and you will likely feel the need to add more drugs for those side effects. The more drugs you add, the more that keep piling on.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Katesmom

You are tinkering around with so many different pills at this dose and that that it is now impossible to tell what is causing what and what could be changed by any alterations.

Exactly what I was thinking. Way to many variables to figure out what is causing what. Testosterone and Hcg are a whole other situation for untoward reactions.

I'm honestly at a loss to give any advice on where to go next, but I do know that lithium is far from a non toxic drug(that's why frequent blood work is necessary to monitor levels closely to avoid toxicity, the only psych drug that this is required)and adding that to the mix is not the answer.

Matthew,
Diet soda contains ASPARTAME- which is a NEUROTOXIN. That is ITSELF causes depression, and brain damage. Stop drinking it immediatly and see if you dont feel better. Do not underestimate how dangerous aspartame is......

[tezwacker]

I have to agree about the aspertame. About two years ago I thought I was having anxiety attacks. I saw my GP, and she increased my Paxil dosage (no questions asked) when later I realized there was a pattern of this whenever I would drink Crystal Light, which contains aspertame. Although regular soda isn't good either, it would be better than drinking the diet.

[Paxilalmostkilledme]

"Everytime a phone rings, a door knocks, a dog barks and noises I jump out of my skin, I do not know what that is called."

For me this didn't disappear until I was off SSRIs for a long time - you might want to research adrenal glands on PP - lots of great info.

[TryingtoGetWell]

Originally Posted by iwowi

Does tapering by compounding means taking a dose every other day?

Iwona, I think what matthew is referring to is having his medication prepared by a compounding pharmacist. There are various reasons for having medications compounded, including avoiding other ingredients that are in the manufactured form but which a patient cannot tolerate, to get a medication in a different form (such as liquid when a medication isn't manufactured commercially in liquid form), etc. (They can also compound medications to a doctor's specific orders when the med isn't manufactured that way commercially.)

The reason that some people use compounded ADs for slow tapers is to get a medication in the precise doses while weaning, especially if the med is not available in liquid (or even tablet) form. Compounding pharmacists have special advanced training (and special equipment) and can turn the active ingredient into a form where precise tiny doses can be measured and then put in capsules or liquid, etc.

Compounded medications are also a godsend if you have allergic reactions to various inactive ingredients such as artificial colors or preservatives, since a compounding pharmacist can put the active ingredient in a different and safer base.

One needs a specific prescription from a doctor that prescribes exactly how the medication should be compounded.

[matthew T]

I do not feel its w/d from wellbutrin. I am dropping very slowly, I have a compound pharmacy making me 10% reduction every month or so. I have dropped much faster in the past from wellbutrin with no issues.
there is something else wrong.

Originally Posted by iwowi

I am sorry to hear you are not feeling good.

Does tapering by compounding means taking a dose every other day? If yes it is not a good thing to do and may be contributing to your depression. You are in withdrawal due to tapering off the Wellbutrin and that is why you are feeling so low and that is why you are so jumpy. How much of Wellbutrin did you taper so far and what is your taper schedule? Perhaps you need to slow down the tapper if you are feeling so bad.

I would ditch the diet soda as Samalabear suggests. It is a chemical poison.

Remember that what you are feeling now is due to withdrawal and you will not feel like this forever. Take care. I hope you feel better soon.

[Katesmom]

Wellbutrin withdrawal is fairly uncomplicated for most people. I'm talking more about the numerous medications that you are ingesting. When you take so many things at once, you don't know what you are going to get. It can make meds that are meant to do one thing do the opposite. You have too much going on to make any kind of conclusion. Adding more meds will further muddy the water. It is slowly getting away from meds that will make things clearly. It is a long and often difficult process, but that is the only way to know what is what.

[matthew T]

katesmom and others. Thanks for your time and responses.
I started the Testosterone shots and HCG because my testosterone was very low and my estrodiol was hi. Both of these can contribute to depression, so I wanted to get those hormones to optimal ranges.
I do not think wellbutrin or lexapro ever helped me, ever. I have been on various doses.
There have been months that everything is fine, lately I have a couple GREAT days, I lift weights etc, feel great, then I go into a depression that is unforgiving.
Lithium helps some folks. Thought it was the least poisonous.
What am I supposed to do? sit here and die? taper to no AD meds and see what happens>?
lexapro and wellbutrin are the main things I take
Testosterone and hcg can be stopped at any time with little consequence. I take a tiny piece of trazadone at night and thats it.
You all make my feel if I am taking more AD's then others here, I can not take bad news. I take two, thats it. Thought I would see if lithium gets me some relief while I continue to taper the wellbutrin.
At least i am not on paxil, that sounds like the worst.

my goal is to get this depression under control, I cant live like this much longer, I am pulling out all the stops to get help. all kinds of treatment, therapy etc. For all I know the supplements of fish oil and adrenal supplements block my thyroid medicine.

[matthew T]

Originally Posted by Katesmom

Wellbutrin withdrawal is fairly uncomplicated for most people. I'm talking more about the numerous medications that you are ingesting. When you take so many things at once, you don't know what you are going to get. It can make meds that are meant to do one thing do the opposite. You have too much going on to make any kind of conclusion. Adding more meds will further muddy the water. It is slowly getting away from meds that will make things clearly. It is a long and often difficult process, but that is the only way to know what is what.

could not adding one drug like lithium actually help some, thus allowing me to taper off wellbutrin and lexapro?

[matthew T]

Originally Posted by tezwacker

I have to agree about the aspertame. About two years ago I thought I was having anxiety attacks. I saw my GP, and she increased my Paxil dosage (no questions asked) when later I realized there was a pattern of this whenever I would drink Crystal Light, which contains aspertame. Although regular soda isn't good either, it would be better than drinking the diet.

do you think aspartame could be contributor to depression? anxiety is not so much an issue.
I thought caffeine was more harmful while on AD then aspartame

[Katesmom]

Matthew, you have to do what you have to do. I don't know what else to tell you. But, I can't not point out that you are taking three antidepressants of different classes every day and you are still depressed. Poop out on these drugs can make you feel the very thing they are supposed to treat in an exagerrated way.

As for lithium, it has a shocking amount of drug interactions, including with SSRIs like Lexapro. It also has a long list of side effects:


SIDE EFFECTS: The most common side effects that can occur in persons taking lithium are fine hand tremor, dry mouth, altered taste perception, weight gain, increased thirst, increased frequency of urination, mild nausea or vomiting, impotence, decreased libido, diarrhea, and kidney abnormalities. Many of the gastrointestinal side effects (nausea, taste alterations, diarrhea) often disappear with continued therapy. Additionally, they may be less common if lithium is taken in divided doses with meals. If diarrhea or excessive urination lead to dehydration, lithium toxicity is possible. Lithium can also cause changes in the electrocardiogram, low blood pressure, and decreased heart rate.

The following side effects suggest that lithium blood levels may be too high, and that the dose of lithium may need to be reduced (after confirmation by measurement of lithium levels in blood):

loss of appetite,


visual impairment,


tiredness; muscle weakness,


muscle fasciculations (twitches),


tremor,


unsteady gait,


confusion, seizure,


arrhythmias,


slurred speech,


coma.
About 1 in every 25 persons who receives lithium develops a goiter (an enlarged thyroid gland). Hypothyroidism (low thyroid hormone levels) has been reported. Signs of hypothyroidism may include:

dry rough skin,


hair loss,


hoarseness,


mania,


mental depression,


increased sensitivity to cold, and


swelling of the feet, lower legs, and neck.

[matthew T]

http://www.crazymeds.us/CrazyTalk/in...p?showtopic=76


these people swear by lithium, look at their quotes

[matthew T]

It will take me 3 years to taper of lex and wellbutrin at my schedule which is fine, but I can not continue to feel this poorly for 3 more years, no one could take it.
I have considered street drug or opiates for the rest of my days, some people function as addicts for years. I would trade being an addict if it helped with depression. Opiates relieve depression. I know its a stupid thought, but shows level of desperation

[Katesmom]

Matthew, if you look for the answer to everything in a pill bottle, then that's the only place you are going to look. At crazymeds, those folks are notorious for doing that. They would have everyone on meds. But, I gotta ask you, where have meds gotten you so far. You are currently on three different classes of antidepressant and what has that done for you?

If you are convinced that you just haven't hit upon the magic pill yet, then there is nothing that I can say to you. And, at the end of the day, only you can decide what you are going to do. I'm just telling you to look where meds have gotten you. You've gone from bbs to bullets and now you want grenades.

If you want to see how you really feel, how the real you feels, without side effects and being polydrugged, then starting from scratch is the only way to know. And, considering that you have known endocrine issues which are well-known to cause emotional issues like depression, constantly altering your endocrine system with psych meds is the sure way to keep your emotions off kilter indefinitely.

[Katesmom]

Originally Posted by matthew T

Opiates relieve depression.

Opiates cause depression.

[matthew T]

Katesmom, Lcrawford and others, I come here to listen to your wisdom and knowledge on these topic, believe me.
I am 45, I just need to squeeze out 10 or 15 years and me kids will be grown.
I have made huge steps like quitting nicotine and boozing to help my situation. I just need to find the smoking gun that is contributing to heavily to this depression re occurence.

[Katesmom]

And, no one here can tell you that. You probably, at this point, need to be in intensive DAILY therapy. We cannot give you anything like what you need. We can only give some amount of clarity about meds, about how they are not the be all and end all. I am not saying that at times they cannot be a tool to get you where you need to be. Problem is that you are about topped out in the psych med department.

[matthew T]

Are their circumstances where AD drugs are a huge help, warranted, etc for long term use?
Has there been many successive of depression recovery w/o these things?
hypothyroid is corrected with pills, hypogonadism [ low testosterone] is treated with shots/pills. I just thought depression could be contained with one type of medicine in conjunction with other treatments.
of the millions on AD meds, are the majority of people helped or hurt by these meds?

[matthew T]

Originally Posted by Katesmom

And, no one here can tell you that. You probably, at this point, need to be in intensive DAILY therapy. We cannot give you anything like what you need. We can only give some amount of clarity about meds, about how they are not the be all and end all. I am not saying that at times they cannot be a tool to get you where you need to be. Problem is that you are about topped out in the psych med department.

I understand

[Katesmom]

Originally Posted by matthew T

Are their circumstances where AD drugs are a huge help, warranted, etc for long term use?
Has there been many successive of depression recovery w/o these things?
hypothyroid is corrected with pills, hypogonadism [ low testosterone] is treated with shots/pills. I just thought depression could be contained with one type of medicine in conjunction with other treatments.
of the millions on AD meds, are the majority of people helped or hurt by these meds?

I cannot answer these questions in a way that would be satisfying to either one of us. I do believe that the theory behind antidepressant drugs is deeply faulty. I also have seen that they do not work for a lifetime. They are not a replacement of a missing and measurable chemical like thyroid medication or insulin in a diabetic. They are not comparable to those drugs in any way. There are studies in the research area of this site that have shown that therapy or exercise are at least as successful as ADs.

Please, don't romanticize the next pill on the list. All of those people who love lithium so much on those other boards--do they have thyroid issues? How many other meds are they taking with the lithium? Are they taking an SSRI with it? Because there are known drug interactions with SSRIs and lithium. If it would take you three years to get off lex, then would you wait that long to start lithium? This is not a simple situation. It is complicated.

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by matthew T

katesmom and others. Thanks for your time and responses.
I started the Testosterone shots and HCG because my testosterone was very low and my estrodiol was hi. Both of these can contribute to depression, so I wanted to get those hormones to optimal ranges.
I do not think wellbutrin or lexapro ever helped me, ever. I have been on various doses.
There have been months that everything is fine, lately I have a couple GREAT days, I lift weights etc, feel great, then I go into a depression that is unforgiving.
Lithium helps some folks. Thought it was the least poisonous.
What am I supposed to do? sit here and die? taper to no AD meds and see what happens>?
lexapro and wellbutrin are the main things I take
Testosterone and hcg can be stopped at any time with little consequence. I take a tiny piece of trazadone at night and thats it.
You all make my feel if I am taking more AD's then others here, I can not take bad news. I take two, thats it. Thought I would see if lithium gets me some relief while I continue to taper the wellbutrin.
At least i am not on paxil, that sounds like the worst.

my goal is to get this depression under control, I cant live like this much longer, I am pulling out all the stops to get help. all kinds of treatment, therapy etc. For all I know the supplements of fish oil and adrenal supplements block my thyroid medicine.

Actually, Trazodone is also an anti depressant; it's a tetracyclic. So, you're taking three types of ADs, plus HCG and testosterone and now talking about throwing Lithium into the mix.

HCG and testosterone both list depression as a side effect, as well as irritability and fatigue.

Lithium is far from being the least poisonous. First of all, it interacts with Lexapro and common side effects are tremor and loss of motor skills. It's also been known to cause seizures and interacts with a slew of other meds, including Advil (ibuprofen).

No one is trying to make you feel bad, but you have to look at the facts here and the facts are, your drugs could very well be making you sick.

Matthew, you do what you have to do; it's your life and only you know exactly how you feel. None of us are doctors either, but before jumping into any other drug, you need to fully research it and make sure you're educated about what you're putting into your body. Especially when two of the things you're presently injecting into your body, list depression as a common side effect.