What if it doesn't end

[gsWade3]

Its been over a year and I'm faced with this question: What if taking anti-depressants from the age of 12 to 18 really caused irreversible damage to my brain and this perpetual emotional numbness and fatigue is a permanent part of my life. How long should I continue to wait for things to get better? 10 years? 5 years? 2 years? A few more months? I'm trying to put life on hold during this recovery period, but is that the correct strategy? When do I turn back to the medical establishment for answers? Do I wait for more advanced cures to come out?

I spend a lot of time on another forum, the yahoo group ssrisex, and there was a poster whose been experiencing blunting/sexual dysfunction for 13 years now. I dont want to be 32 years old and say ****, i just wasted my entire young life.

[carolyn]

I would try not to put your life on hold as much as you possibly can.

I know it's more easily said than done, but I really positively believe that we should all be out there living the lives we want -- faking it where we have to -- and that's what'll get us there.

For what it's worth, I wasn't on SSRIs as a teen, but I did have debilitating asthma and panic attacks from my mid-teens until my mid-20s, so I know what it's like to feel like your life is permanently altered at a young age. At some point I just gave up trying to wait it out and being "on hold"...and life got a whole lot better. Just my $0.02 of course.

[Ironhalen]

I know what you mean,after 14yrs on this drug I feel like I wasted my young life,but all we can do is fight back right here right now to live a semi-normal life.Don't get down by lookin back it's a never ending spiral,just leads to more negative thoughts.Tell life to come on man,lets live!

[nice bloke]

hello there

i think a lot of us have this worry. i read the post that you are referring to this morning too and it really freaked me out as well. the thing that we have to remember is that that website is not very well organised and we really know nothing about that guy's history. he claims to have been permanently damaged from 6 months use of paxil 13 years ago and it makes us wonder about ourselves because we took the drug for much longer and are probably suffering from worse symptoms too. but, many people on this forum have suffered from worse symptoms and have gotten better. long term damage like he describes in his post of a few sentences must be very very rare. as i said before he doesn't say a lot so we don't know anything about his life or other chemicals that he may have ingested over the years etc. i woke up feeling extremely anxious and had a panic attack when i read that post as i have been very badly affected by withdrawal and it includes many sexual problems. that website is not good for the psyche when one is suffering like we are. send me a private message any time you like, i am in my 30's, have been paxil free for 20 months and i have the same concerns as you. it is an awful way to live with this constant fear that we will never be the same again. but, as i said earlier, many have had worse symptoms than that guy and have recovered and i re-iterate that we really don't know anything about the guy in question. for all we know he could be suffering from a chronic form of clinical depression or other medical condition. many people experience years of anhedonia because of other factors. why was he prescribed paxil in the first place? the details he gives in his post are so few that we cannot and must not read into it too much. believe me when i say that that message has affected me very badly, it was the last thing i needed to read this morning, but i will not give up hope that whatever damage we have suffered is irreversible and doesn't have the chance to get better.

[Songbird]

It isn't just the young who have these worries, I am 42 years old and wondering if I'll ever be able to get off this drug, and even if I do manage to successfully taper, will it take me the next ten years? And what will I be like without it? Will I have lasting effects? I just don't know, it is impossible to predict, and worrying about it will achieve nothing except making me feel bad.

I do believe the brain has amazing healing power but it is not quick. Don't put your life on hold, if you can't have the life you want right now, do whatever you can do.

[nickels]

Wade, you need to continue living...putting your life on hold doesn't promote healing...at least not in my experience. Yes, you were on meds during a critical developmental period of your life, but I don't think you are far enough out from a very fast taper to decide that you are permanently damaged. Young bodies and young brains are probably even more resiliant than their older counterparts...try to stay positive and keep that on your side instead of using it against yourself.

I read on wiki (yeah, not exactly a reliable source) that anhedonia may also be an effect of prolonged fatigue. How about trying to work on the fatigue? Might be worth a shot, no? Maybe look into that aspect of this...turn to your diet or your sleeping habits and see where there could be improvement.

I had severe depression, sucidal ideation and anhedonia from the first time I cold turkey'd, to when I got back on and during my entire taper, then even for a few months after being completely off meds. That was OVER 2 years ago (I NEVER had these feelings prior to going on an SSRI)...and honestly, if I focused on "what if I'm destined to be like this forever?" then I probably would still be in it. I'm not saying by any means that you are bringing this on yourself, what I'm trying to say is that sometimes accepting, letting go, moving on and trying to live life does wonders for your mental health. It wasn't till I was able to do this, thru cognitive behavior therapy, that I really began to feel better.

Take care of yourself Wade, I know that things seem dark right now, but they will get better. Oh, and don't focus on other people's recovery...you can't compare yourself to anyone else b/c all of our withdrawals are different.

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by gsWade3

I'm trying to put life on hold during this recovery period, but is that the correct strategy?

I spend a lot of time on another forum, the yahoo group ssrisex, and there was a poster whose been experiencing blunting/sexual dysfunction for 13 years now. I dont want to be 32 years old and say ****, i just wasted my entire young life.

Psychologically, putting your life on hold means you just dwell on how you feel every day. You're just waiting for that day you wake up and everything is fine. It doesn't work like that.

Get on with your life, do what you want to do, go where you want to go. You may be pleasantly surprised at how much better you feel by not just sitting around waiting.

Yes, that means you'll have to fake it for a while, but we all do that at times in our lives anyway. Meds or no meds. People just aren't happy go lucky every day going through life without a care. But, no one shows all of that outwardly. You never know what's going on with the person sitting next to you.

As far as the other board. You cannot base your experience, or expect your experience, to be like anyone else's. Your experience is your own and just like we say on this board all the time - it's an internet message board and we only know what people tell us. There may be a whole host of other things going on with the person you mention, that you have no idea about.

It's your life, your experience - not anyone else's.

[Meri_Ashke]

I can't really give advice because I'm largely in the same boat you are (I started taking Paxil when I was 15, and I'm 25 now) so I don't know personally if things get better and 100% recovery is possibly. Hopefully it will be, though! Maybe all that's needed is a little more time and the body will eventually become normal again.

[Aeroman]

Anhedonia cant be forever, it just cant!

[Mixter]

It will end, but it takes lot of time. In my case, maybe 4-7 years.

To get through. Survive each day of depression, anxiety, demons, akathisia, dizziness, nausea and despair. Inside the dark room.

Plan to buy a new computer once I got setup in new apartment.
Getting through withdrawal can need a plan. Also positive I will be near my job and friends, also the meeting center.

[pax80]

I thought that in 2008 i would be returning to my life...

i set it to this year and i think i have to change that again.

[gsWade3]

Clinging onto the possibility of recovery is what keeps me going every day, the recognition at the back of my mind that I'm only in a temporary phase makes the drudgery of life without emotions bearable...but when I read things that Breggin says, reports from the Boston Globe and suddenly i'm not assured of this recovery, when I consider that i may be getting through every day not making strides toward any better condition, i lose hope and wonder if I should just maybe go back to psychiatry for help. I'm well aware that psychiatry "got me into this mess," but it seems like by default that makes it the only thing that can dig me out of it. There's something wrong with my frontal lobes--I cant connect to things or people, can't feel emotion, get neither joy nor sadness from living. I don't enjoy movies, music, feel love, NOTHING. Its the most unbelievably meaningless existence you can imagine. How much longer should I wait for something that may not even happen?

[scotty]

You spent 6 years on multiple drugs...this isn't going way fast, but it will. It's going to take time to find out who you are off drugs, and who you are as an adult and it's going to take time for your brain to recover.
You have lost years of emotional development and years of "growing up". Ryan was in the same situation, albeit with shorter drug use.
It took him a long time to find out who he is, but it is happening.
Hanging on to the "I'll just go back on drugs" only stops that growing process. Recognizing that the drugs created this mess and making the commitment to never return to that is motivation to make the moves that you need make.

[gsWade3]

I hear what you're saying but for me its not just a question of what my identity is off medications...It would be one thing if I was highly emotional and despondent, and I needed to learn how to cope with the sadness/challenges of life etc. Its just that i feel almost NOTHING, so i dont know how that can ever lead to any growth. Its as though i've been lobotomized, so i don't know that the same advice applies to me.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by gsWade3

I hear what you're saying but for me its not just a question of what my identity is off medications...It would be one thing if I was highly emotional and despondent, and I needed to learn how to cope with the sadness/challenges of life etc. Its just that i feel almost NOTHING, so i dont know how that can ever lead to any growth. Its as though i've been lobotomized, so i don't know that the same advice applies to me.

At a year off Ryan felt the same way. Today he is a different person. Never give up on yourself....you're worth the time.

[gsWade3]

I thought you just told me last week that Ryan only had positive emotions blunted, but he felt depression strongly at a year out. Was he emotionally blunted or just anhedonic?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by gsWade3

I thought you just told me last week that Ryan only had positive emotions blunted, but he felt depression strongly at a year out. Was he emotionally blunted or just anhedonic?

Hmmmm, positive emotions blunted is anhedonia. I'm not sure what your asking.

[gsWade3]

To the best of my knowledge Anhedonia is a loss of joy and pleasure, emotional blunting is the systematic elimination or reduction of ALL emotional response including sadness. My problem is the latter...the way you described it Ryan was despondent for awhile, which sounds more like Anhedonia. I've seen a lot of people with anhedonia, it seems like basically me and altostrata with emotional blunting.

[scotty]

I think you're splitting hairs. Emotional blunting is emotional blunting. No highs, no lows. Doesn't matter what term is used to describe it.
Bottom line is that it will get better, but you have to be an active participant in that recovery. You can't "wait" until it magically goes away.

It takes a slow reentry into life. Taking small steps towards that goal.
Ryan went through one of the most harrowing withdrawals that I know...then add in adrenal insufficiency and constant twitching. Bottom line is that he kept moving forward and never gave in to the permanent damage mindset.

That attitude served him well. It's taken 5 years, but it was time well spent.

[gsWade3]

The reason i make such a distinction between anhedonia and emotional blunting is that If I was anhedonic--depressed, weepy, unhappy--I would have a sense of what I needed to do to get myself better. But what can you do for someone who has no emotional response at all? How do I take "small steps" when nothing means anything? This is starting to sound philosophical which is not what i'm intending, but its very difficult to imagine progress until I can feel enough to cultivate interests in life.

[carolyn]

Originally Posted by gsWade3

How do I take "small steps" when nothing means anything?

I think you just have to fake it. You say, "sure, that sounds great!" if someone asks you to do something, or "oh, that's beautiful" or "man, I'm bummed," even if you don't really feel it.

I'm not suggesting you lie to people but we all have to fake it from time to time and it sounds like you have to more than most.

But! The good news is that "fake it 'til you make it" really does work and I bet one of those times you really WILL think something is fun or a bummer.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by gsWade3

The reason i make such a distinction between anhedonia and emotional blunting is that If I was anhedonic--depressed, weepy, unhappy--I would have a sense of what I needed to do to get myself better. But what can you do for someone who has no emotional response at all? How do I take "small steps" when nothing means anything? This is starting to sound philosophical which is not what i'm intending, but its very difficult to imagine progress until I can feel enough to cultivate interests in life.

This is exactly what Ryan went through. Surprisingly it was video games that helped him get involved again.

[gsWade3]

Very encouraging, thanks Carolyn and Scotty. Did Ryan's "blunting" start on the meds (mine started about 2 years in) or only in withdrawal?

Yeah I can fake it fine with friends, the question is what do I do with my time when I'm by myself and homework etc. is done.

[WhatIsNormal]

Originally Posted by LCrawford67

Psychologically, putting your life on hold means you just dwell on how you feel every day. You're just waiting for that day you wake up and everything is fine. It doesn't work like that.

Get on with your life, do what you want to do, go where you want to go. You may be pleasantly surprised at how much better you feel by not just sitting around waiting.

Yes, that means you'll have to fake it for a while, but we all do that at times in our lives anyway. Meds or no meds. People just aren't happy go lucky every day going through life without a care. But, no one shows all of that outwardly. You never know what's going on with the person sitting next to you.

As far as the other board. You cannot base your experience, or expect your experience, to be like anyone else's. Your experience is your own and just like we say on this board all the time - it's an internet message board and we only know what people tell us. There may be a whole host of other things going on with the person you mention, that you have no idea about.

It's your life, your experience - not anyone else's.

Beautiful advice, I need to like print this out and look at it on my days when I feel like "will I ever feel 'normal'"

[scotty]

Originally Posted by gsWade3

Very encouraging, thanks Carolyn and Scotty. Did Ryan's "blunting" start on the meds (mine started about 2 years in) or only in withdrawal?

Yeah I can fake it fine with friends, the question is what do I do with my time when I'm by myself and homework etc. is done.

He had it all through his paxil use and in withdrawal.