Mixters Effexor HELL taper thread

[rain]

Keep it up, Mix! You are an inspiration to me. I always think that if you can do it, so can I! xo

[Songbird]

You're doing great! Just remember not to be tempted to go too fast, stay with the slow and steady, it works!

[Mixter]

Thank you all!

3nd day, some minor dizziness, coldness, nausea, insomnia, blurryness, halos increased, jerks, muscle stretches, zaps, head pressure, akathisia. common symptoms. 5% is ok, feel I could not take like 7 or 8% drops!

Was at visit at my twin sister 1 hour drive away with my parents to see their new daughter, and have a talk, dinner, coffee. I felt ok. 2-3 months ago, in august, on same visit it was not feeling so good with more symptoms and intense body vibrations/uneasiness/sick feelings, rotating wheel inside head which are nearly completely gone. I can look at the road straight thru the windshield. It now causes minor head pressure, compared to previous feeling like melting the brain and body. I am so relieved this awful feelings is gone! But, 5% cuts is hard enough, because Effexor is a devil to get off but I feel I am doing the right thing now, slow and steady... and healing during this slow taper!

I am thinking to do a count of the amount of the pellets in the 150 mg cap to be on the sure side! With averaging out contents of 3 of em to give a better value. Could be useful for others.

[Mixter]

#1 try of 150mg, count 548 of pellets. Time to count: 15 minutes. Made batch for sunday (-55 off)

[Mixter]

#2 try of 150mg, count 541 of pellets. ---||--- (both using Orifarm brand imported "wyeth hellas" blisters)

[Mixter]

#3 try of 150mg, count 543 of pellets. ---||---

seems the diff between min and max is lower than I expected.

efexorsam said the difference was like 230-270 for 75 mg capsule.

average value = (548+541+543)/3 = 544 pellets for 150mg capsule.

new mg/pellet is 150mg/544 = 0.2757mg/pellet per average.

adjusted pellet count for 300-285mg (diff -15mg) - taper is to remove:

15/0.2757 = 54.41 rounded to 54 pellets.

and then how I feel now, on 4th day, I think I am borderlining from feeling so-so to better.

it was a bit rough these 4 days but I feel a bit better today.
overall symptoms still minor. coping easily.
sleeping takes between 30 minutes to 2 hours.

sleeping between 5 to 10 hours, median between 7 and 8 hours, per day.

[rain]

Hey Mix... do you dig math??

[Mixter]

rain, sometimes, if I suceed with it yes.

I relied on the old one pellet count off the 37.5mg capsule which was 137, which multiplied with 4 (=150mg/548pellets),
compared to the recent counts of the three 150mg capsules = lo/hi 541-548 (average 544) which is not far off it.

Bigger capsules give more reliable approximation than small ones.

I need to know I have right, so the count of the averaged contents of the pellets of the three 150mg capsules,
compared to the old pellet count off 37.5 mg is approximative.

The difference is not too much, so it seems like it is more evenly distributed than I thought.

[Mixter]

Vibrations is back some more, maybe because I slept less - 6 hours.

Coffee could be a culprit too, glutamate system downregulation.

I had a bit trouble sleeping, took me 2-3 hours to sleep, could be the bad chair at work - no elbow support so I have exchanged it for a better, but not still good one. The support sides is too wide (not adjustable) so my elbows fall between. The symptoms is noticeable. Mild hypomania and vibrations.

Anxiety and depression seems less today, yesterday it was minor.
The cold feelings in body is slowly replacing to a warm, hot, heavy feelings with a "wellbeing feeling". As usual...

Trying to not be too late for bed, but it is difficult. Goal is to get in bed around 10pm. Problems in life can make it difficult, to get ready. I have to enforce more direct approaches to get in bed same time every evening no matter what.

Get off computer earlier, get work done. Try to rest more before sleeptime. Read books, magazines, watch TV, doing other things than computer stuff (blah). I am at work and enjoy learning new things about the linux OS and servers.

[Mixter]

Slept from 9pm to 7.30am, great!

New symptoms today, blurry vision, tremors and jerks.

Still doing ok. Cold extremites, but seems to change to warm soon.
7th day tomorrow, it is always at 2nd week (8th day) its the best.

[Mixter]

I had a rough morning today, going to work. New reality set in, or so it felt for me. My brain wanted to shut down, the stimuli felt too much. On work it went ok, but alot of demonic thoughts. Had massive headache when I was home, took 200mg ibuprofen but didnt help, took one 200mg, did help a bit, but then headaches were back, took one more, finally, got relief. It was my highest dose all-time during the taper! I guess it is because I mold the brain so much, so could be trying to work against my thought demons it makes headaches and alot of head pressure (which is gone on 600mg ibuprofen). Maybe it's time to slow down taper I guess, or ride this out. I tried to sleep recently with no success, it is 11.30pm still - now so I still have time. I also had suicide thoughts, just during this day, with a bit of depression and anxiety with uncomfortable feelings, dread, vibrations, etc. It was not too hard, but a bit tough.

Faith helps, and everyone else here, helps me understand if they can, so can I! 12th day tomorrow.

I hope to get sleep at last and less headaches!

[jule1]

I have been there Mixter. Just keep hanging on and you will get through. Hope you feel better and don't feel the need to rush tapering okay?? If these symptoms persist you may need more time at the current dose??

[Mixter]

Less sensitive today, less reality crash, but kind of more depressed and anxious (chemical morning anxiety) but not bad like it could be. But I am not so used to it now again.

I think the drug has pooped out on me and I am doomed lol... or so it feels.

I think it is not dangerous to feel this, I am at work, gained some strength by venting.
I dont have so much symptoms in the body I think, but more mental ones now.

It helps to push through the depression fog. I believe, if we could be creative and doing things under depression, it is key to combating depression.

I am going to talk about this with my CBT therapist today.

Yes I am trying to hold min 3-4 weeks. I hope it will resolve. Also need to stop thinking bad thoughts about this "like it is going to end, I am doomed" because of this. I need to vent here. Thanks jule1!!

[rain]

Originally Posted by Mixter

It helps to push through the depression fog. I believe, if we could be creative and doing things under depression, it is key to combating depression.

That's it Mix... I agree! Forcing yourself to do something takes your mind off the depression... working, being with friends, movies - anything to take your mind off yourself.

You're doing so well... just a bump in the road. Keep up the good work! Hugs

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by Mixter

Also need to stop thinking bad thoughts about this "like it is going to end, I am doomed" because of this.

This is what I call the 'doomcloud', to try to separate it from myself, it is definitely a withdrawal symptom.

[Mixter]

Originally Posted by Songbird

This is what I call the 'doomcloud', to try to separate it from myself, it is definitely a withdrawal symptom.

yes, when we are sensitive and vulnerable it feels easy to think so.

I feel better today, no depression or anxiety again.

Indeed it was a bump. I think it was a wave from when I felt bad/then better in sept/oct.
had a "brain meltdown" in july/aug, from cannabis withdrawal, then got worse, but better in sept/oct.
glutamate... alot of severe vibrations. adjustments. then i got bad again... then better. and this is the wave again,
so I def. know where it comes from. Many different interleaved waves. It makes me think... phew, I was lucky!

could been alot worse! it was reckless...

now I know about the headaches, seems like it stems from thinking alot. when the brain kind of tries to compensate... maybe from toxic byproducts or mitochondrites. why am I thinking so much about it. but I am glad that I am better today and at work feeling more up again, less negative, more happy.

and not even hypomanic. just feeling more normal.

my prefrontal cortex have been vibrating and jumping alot recently, it is definitely adjusting. does anyone have this a lot? and I mean, alot.

[Mixter]

Feel more normal today, the surroundings and people feel "kind".

Was at the doc and talked. He supported my taper. Also is going to have a big network meeting with everyone involved including my parents.

Checked my pulse and blood pressure. pulse: 60 smooth and BP: 120/70 which is normal, great. It has gone down from 140/90 to 120/70.

Seems like I can stay for a while, I need to stabilize more. Also have talked with my therapist alot about the "demons", and seems that I understand them more, they come from my childhood I have thought so because they "protected" me, kind of. But they are not necessary now anymore.

But exacerbated by Efexor. So I am going to get in touch with them and embrace them, then just go away for what they are... not needed anymore.

I use Calmag now, 600/300 calcium/magnesium from Great Earth. It works much better than magnesium alone, I have found. I take 1200/600 a day, divided in 4 doses. Also iron drink, vegetable with B vitamins under 100% RDA, and extras (blutsaft, google it) and the usual Omega-3 3-4g a day, and chrome picolinate.

[Lucy]

Mixter, I'm glad to know you are feeling better. Hope you continue to improve as you taper.

[Mixter]

Have been feeling hot, lethargy, nauseus a bit lately, but seemed to be a much better day today and less of above symptoms. It is day 22, over 3 weeks now - and I am not really worse. I plan to stay min 4 weeks or more to see how far I can get. The head pressure still continues, feels like small boiling nerves sometimes inside my prefrontal cortex. Feel emotionally flat sometimes. I have noticed improvements with visual snow. Seems better. But still a long way to go, but definitely is less to think about. I now use Spirulina and it seems to work better than whey protein! It's self containing protein. "Life stream" ecological brand. I tried to get Noni juice but they in shops said the facility that produces them is dirty and not good circumstances for workers and not ecological. Hmm.

[Mixter]

Now, seems to be back a bit, from the good wave, a bit mild anxiety spikes, not a biggie. Dizziness, vertigo and menthol sensation in hands is here. Seems to change. Feel a bit more difficult to think. Resting helps. Darkness. Long sleepy nights of course. And rest from parents divorce turmoil is VERY necessary. I dont know how I will solve it, but I have to... but mom is not going to live with us for 3 weeks so there will be some calm, tomorrow. I and dad will continue, work, as usual. I will see how long I can stay on 285 mg. Also, I got other type of Effexor. The Orifarm brand has become generic and it contains three big balls in the capsule. I have to change brand again. Three candidates are Qodoxx, Teva and Sandoz. I have used the foreign brands (parallel imported brands) Vandral and Dobupal and they worked like Wyeths, I have sent my doc a message and the pharmacist is phoning around, will let me know if they find exact brand - tomorrow. I hope so. They three brands is in the high-price protection system so I can get them paid for free by the government in Sweden.

I have around 100 of 150mg Wyeth-brand left, and 100 of 75mg.
I am not in an hurry... I will sort this out!

[Songbird]

What a bummer, three big balls is no good! Good that you can get the other brands subsidised, though!

[Mixter]

The pharmacy sent me a SMS and said they have "parallell" imported Teva, which the contents is same as Wyeths original brand. Parallell imported is the same (parallell) as that in Sweden. But Teva has its own Effexor generic, which is not the same as the parallell imported thing. I'll go today and check out. I am at work, had some stress when my dad said to not get too late to work. Felt a bit depressed but not much anxiety. Thoughts seemed to slow down, not so much racing thoughts now, the jumping/vibrations inside brain has ceased. I feel a bit worse at evenings now, trying to sleep I get some shocks and restless. I think I will go drop today to 270mg. I feel sure it will go well and I have improved in certain ways since I started tapering 5% from 353.7mg. No idea to continue to stay at 285mg. I dont like high doses. I am soon there at 225mg. I will reduce in 15mg amounts. 270, 255, 240, 225, each 3 weeks from now on. We'll see how I feel, slowly increasing the percent to 6.25 from 5.26 which the cut from 285 to 270 mg is. So if I feel worse, I will stick to the 5% plan or stop at a given percent. I think it is good idea to be careful. Yes, Songbird, I got very very sick from the 3-ball Effexor. Stomach pains were very excruitating.

[leo79]

Mix, I'm there with you my friend. I'm sorry I haven't replied much. Went to A&E the other day and told them that it is not possible to be this ill and still be alive. They told me "go see your GP". what a joke.
I'm getting these shocks now and jumping inside my brain. I wonder what this is? Do you know? Just zaps? Or mini seizures? Limbic system seizures? Excessive glutamate activity I think. It's like too much of the wrong chemicals. It's crazy. I have kundalini activity now aswell which tries to mold the brain to higher consciousness because my body is so sick of the stress it triggers this. It will be a miracle of god if I come out of this even to 80% of 2005 level of health and wellbeing.
Anyway, I do read your thread still, just don't know what to say other than keep going, be strong, boost yourself up. Everyone is helping each other here with this.
I read and listen a lot of spiritual stuff... Eckhart Tolle, J Krisnamurti etc.
We will come out of this though fo sure.

[Mixter]

Oh, Leo, I am so sorry you are suffering this bad, my friend!

What a joke. Yeah, I know these Exactly, I had the same from cannabis withdrawal. Because it messes with glutamate system. It dampens glutamate, then excites it (in withdrawal). But I got well after 6 months. My last smoke was july-augusti 2009. Cannabis made me very calm and I think glutamate receptors got desentizied but anyhow after withdrawal off made more sensitive though it is much improved now (near normal) I still have the kind of "running" water feeling through my lobes, but very mild, before it was alot of jumping inside prefrontal cortex, exactly like yours... I so know it well! But it improved and got ok for me, and yours will too! I know what you mean about molding into higher consciousness (it is simply chemical stuff) and not "yours", so you have to see yourself like a ... survivor? Because you will survive and get well. It is not dangerous, but it feels so. I think it is stress that triggers this because I feel that too when I am more stressed out and the water "starts running in my prefrontal cortex" - the feelings like rotating wheel, with some vibrations... Yea it is very important that we support each other. Healing - can you comment on this? And what can help? For me, Kalcium/Magnesium in 2:1 seemed to help more than Magnesium alone. 300/150 3-4x a day. Have u tried? Seems no problem for me... But maybe you are too sensitive to supplements now, do you take anything? How about POS (phoshpatylserine) ? or something that helps to dampen some.. I dont know.

Maybe low-dose lamictal can do the trick, like it did for Alto? or? Hmm.

Be strong... Leo. I am there with you.

As for me, my taper... I am feeling better after the initial bad period, the first 3-4 days is worst. Now, seems to be going up again. 5th day, body temperature is going up and evenings generally are better because Effexor slowrelease formula has max effects 12 hour after intake, I have thought of dosing 2 times each day... morning and evening to stabilize the valleys and peaks. And for the headaches... improvements! The first 3 days they was bad, and then went going over... The 300-285mg (in past) was worse, with headaches going for 8-9 days, so seems it is working to taper and improve...

Take care!

[leo79]

Yes I have this rotating wheel thing going on and the running water. Prefrontal cortex is damaged by this whole affair. Very strange. I try not to be alarmed by this. I take some supplements - I dont think any do much good. I would like to thing that magnesium helps with zaps and shocks and all the rest, but I'm not so sure. I have no idea what causes what anymore. I only know that SSRIs in the past have caused big changes in either negative or positive direction.
Anything that builds pre-frontal cortex is what is needed.

At the moment I only have 2 states:

asleep: good.
awake: hell.

My biggest concern is the self breakdown that has occurred not really knowing what is what anymore or who I am. Also I started to see that the ego does not control the body really, or at least it is an illusion and we are just incarnated in this particular body for this lifetime. So most days I just sit in this thing and wait for "me" to come back. You must have felt like this at some point right? In the mental hospital? It's a nightmare to feel trapped in this alien body. I wonder if I am really from space haha. Really though I hope I will feel identified with my body again at some point.

I like to read your posts though Mix,
You're gonna be a taper expert I swear!