Tapering progress so far...

[Mixter]

So good to hear that you seem to tolerate the drop!

2.38 percent. Good strategy to take it very slow through!

Just a question: Are you able to sleep more than 6-8 hours?

How long time does it take for you to sleep? (in different situations, sensitivity levels etc)

[scotslass]

Just read through your thread Songbird.Wow,you should be so proud of yourself.You are doing great honey!

[Songbird]

Thanks, Mixter and Scotslass! With me it seems to be less about percentage and more about a dose point where the drug suddenly stops working. So far I feel fine, but we'll see what happens next week when I reach three and a half weeks at this dose.

So far I am mostly sleeping well. I did wake up about 3:30 this morning and couldn't get back to sleep for a while. I have been fighting off a bug for a while now, it hasn't really taken hold but it hasn't gone away either. I woke up with some nasal congestion and irritated throat, I think from my sinuses draining down my throat (sorry if TMI). I found a nasal decongestant spray and that fixed the problem and I got back to sleep again okay.

I even went to gymnastics last night, which sometimes makes my body buzz and makes it harder to fall asleep, but that didn't happen last night, however I didn't train as hard as I sometimes do.

I normally sleep about eight hours and sometimes longer on the weekends. The more stable I get, the more easily and quickly I fall asleep. Last night my body was giving me sleep signs - I feel drowsy and start yawning. This can mean I have had a few late nights and haven't been getting quite enough sleep, maybe 7 hours instead of 8, but it is a good sign that my body wants to sleep and is able to feel drowsy - that doesn't happen when the nervous system is 'sensitised'.

[Songbird]

Still doing okay, system has been feeling a little more stimulated and at times it has made me feel a little anxious, but so far it has all been very mild. Had one night when I'd worked hard at the gym and I wasn't getting to sleep, so I took some passionflower and a quarter of a melatonin, which worked. Been sleeping okay since then, though. I'll stay at this dose at least another few weeks and see how it goes. I can still feel bugs trying to get me, although not as strongly, just taking propolis and vitamin C when I feel I need them.

I'm going on holiday to the beach tomorrow for just over a week, plus our duo (hubby and I) are playing at a cafe on Sunday. We're very under-rehearsed, so are planning to rehearse a lot on Saturday! While I'm away I will try to get to an internet cafe a couple of times, but won't be here every day - just so nobody gets worried!

[Healing]

Gosh, this is sounding really good, SB. It seems like you've made great choices about your taper.

The musical performance sounds very cool! Hope you have a lovely time throughout the week.

[Songbird]

Well, the performance went quite well, but the rest of the week wasn't so great as I had some horrendous PMS. The worst I've had in ages. Very grumpy and moody and at times quite tearful, and even quite depressed, which is very unusual for me. It seems that as my dose gets lower, the PMS is getting worse.

I also had a strange feeling of tension in the body, which is a usual PMS symptom for me - usually what happens is, the tension builds right up to a night or two of insomnia and then my period starts and the tension goes away. While on holiday I was sleeping very well without any sleep aids, then on the last night I suddenly got bad insomnia. I took some passionflower and melatonin eventually and it worked, but I didn't get enough hours of sleep. The next night was even worse and the passionflower and melatonin were not working well enough for me to get properly to sleep and I only got about four hours of sleep. The next day I was supposed to go back to work but after two nights of only four to five hours sleep I felt really terrible so I called in sick. On the third night I took some zopiclone as I desperately needed the sleep and didn't want to take another sick day. Still my period had not started. Then sometime the next day I suddenly started to feel miles better, like something lifted, and I felt really good for a few days, but my period didn't start until a few days later, which was really weird, that has never happened before.

Another problem I'm having - I ordered more liquid a few weeks back and it was supposed to be delivered on Monday. Today is Thursday and it still had not arrived, so I phoned the compounding company and was very annoyed to be told that they hadn't even started making my order yet, as they had been very busy with other orders! I was a bit taken aback by this as their business is to make medicines, which they must realise people need to take daily and must not run out of! At the time I ordered it there was no mention of any delays and they sounded like it wasn't going to be any trouble to have it made and delivered by this week. So tonight I looked in the cupboard and found I still had a packet of Loxamine from just before I switched to liquid, got out my scale and cut some pill pieces to tide me over until next week. I'm actually feeling pretty grumpy about it and a bit anxious. With my sensitivity to dose changes I don't want to be switching between liquid and pills. I guess the moral of the story is that next time I should order my liquid much earlier!

[eileen]

Hi SB, I don't get in very much lately as I'm too busy but I often think of you.
You probably know this already but staying away from salt before your period helps with PMS. I used to crave it at that time of the month and knew if I ate it, I would be in trouble. You are doing well with your weaning and you will get there, your at a low dose so it will keep on getting better. Good Luck!
Eileen

[Songbird]

Thanks, Eileen!

Well, I cut and weighed some pill pieces last night. Hopefully my body won't notice any difference from the liquid. I'm still using some melatonin and passionflower at bedtime, but I fell asleep more easily last night so I'm hoping my sleep will stabilise again very soon.

[paxilboy2010]

this drug's withdrawals are ridiculous no other drug is so hard to withdraw, maybe even benzos.

[Songbird]

Ugh, had a bad night last night for no apparent reason! Had been sleeping well, then last night I had bad back pain (worse than normal) and a headache. Took some ibuprofen, then some paracetamol, then a little bit more of both, headache went away but back pain continued. Tried passionflower and skullcap and melatonin to get to sleep. Almost fell asleep a few times but I would keep waking just as I was about to fall asleep properly. Very frustrating, almost headed into anxiety attack territory a few times but managed to keep control of that somehow. Eventually gave in and took half a zopiclone, I really hate having to resort to that. I can't think of any reason for having this bad night.

I've also realised I cut my pills slightly the wrong size, I think they are more like my previous dose, but as it is only a tiny bit more, I'm not too worried as I should get my liquid this week. I'm hoping my problems aren't because of the switch to pills, I don't think so as it has only been a few days and I normally don't notice changes that quickly. Hoping that tonight is better...

[McLiberty]

Originally Posted by paxilboy2010

this drug's withdrawals are ridiculous no other drug is so hard to withdraw, maybe even benzos.

I don't know what percentage of people on Paxil have severe withdrawal reactions but I got PTSD (Posttraumatic stress disorder) from reading the protracted withdrawal thread 2 weeks ago. I flipped out because I just couldn't process in my head all of the horror. I literally got hit with severe depression on the same day that I read PaxilProgress on September 27, 2010 (the first time I remember anything about Paxil Progress).

I don't remember anything about Paxil Progress before 2 weeks ago. It's very sad. I then realized that what I went through wasn't benzo tolerance, but the withdrawal symptoms from Paxil. I went through 12 months of severe Paxil withdrawal symptoms that I will make a post about later. I thought it was benzodiazepine tolerance but it wasn't.

Songbird, I had mania throughout my Paxil taper, and I couldn't stand it. The mania only stopped with the last dose of Paxil for me. There is hope for us because the success stories show that things do get better with time.

[Songbird]

I don't think I've ever had actual mania, just some mild hypomania at times, which actually feels pretty good. I have had severe akathisia though, that was the worst experience I've ever had.

My liquid arrived this week so I'm back on that now. For a couple of nights I took passionflower and melatonin but still couldn't fall asleep properly - only very light sleep for a brief period and then wide awake again - so I took about a third of a zopiclone.

Last night I took some passionflower and melatonin and lay down to see if I could sleep. It felt like I wouldn't be able to, but after lying very still for some time eventually I did get to sleep, and proper sleep at last! Woke up about 4:30ish to go to the toilet (that's pretty normal for me) and got back to sleep again. So I woke up this morning feeling great after a really good night's sleep. Yay!

I'm thinking the sleep problems may be related to what is going in with my lower back problems. I've had low back pain that may have been keeping me awake and probably also stimulating the nervous system, as the insomnia wasn't purely a pain problem. Normally paracetamol or ibuprofen is enough to relieve the pain, but lately it hasn't been working, probably because the back problem is worse than usual, so I've resorted to panadeine. The first night I had to take two, the last few nights just one has been enough. My back feels like it is improving again. It is such a nuisance, it was really improving for a while, at one point the back pain even went away for a while, then something aggravates it again.

[Songbird]

Last night I only needed a paracetamol for my back, and I slept with passionflower and melatonin. I had to lie still for a while before I could fall asleep, it was hard because I felt quite fidgety, but got there in the end. Sleep quality wasn't great, but okay. Felt a bit tired today and quite bad brain fog which I haven't had for a while. I think it is just because I haven't been getting quite enough sleep, enough to get by and function but not optimal. Today my back feels quite a lot better.

[Songbird]

First post in a while. My back has improved a lot and most days recently I've been without back pain. I think the insole I got from the neuromuscular therapist might be helping.

I have been using a little passionflower for sleep for quite a while (and occasionally a little melatonin, when needed). Had a couple of nights of falling asleep without taking anything, so decided to drop dose from 6.15mg to 6mg. So this year I will have managed to taper a grand total of 0.3mg! I'm hoping I can manage a bit more than that next year, but I'll just be taking it as it comes, no schedule. At this rate it might take me thirty years, but at least I'm functioning well and heading in the right direction.

[Healing]

Good job, SB! As we've said before, this dosage range is probably your red zone -- where the drug stops being therapeutic or something. I bet it will be possible to speed up the taper at some point. In fact, ironically, the slower you go now, the faster you may get to that point where you can begin to taper faster. I am working right now in my own life on how impatience actually *causes* things to happen more slowly....

Anyhoo, you're serving us all as a kind of "test case," proving that it's possible to get off these diabolical meds even if one is having a hard time doing it, while still being able to function with family and work responsibilities. You are an exemplar! Seriously, you're helping a lot of people with the model you're creating.

[GraceC]

Songbird, I'm glad you are posting in your journal again. I've been following your progress. I've terrible insomnia and noticed that melatonin and passionflower seem to help you. I may try them. Thanks for your posts. They help.
GC

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by Healing

Anyhoo, you're serving us all as a kind of "test case," proving that it's possible to get off these diabolical meds even if one is having a hard time doing it, while still being able to function with family and work responsibilities. You are an exemplar! Seriously, you're helping a lot of people with the model you're creating.

Thanks, Healing, but I don't know if it is actually going to work! All I can do is try my best.

Originally Posted by GraceC

Songbird, I'm glad you are posting in your journal again. I've been following your progress. I've terrible insomnia and noticed that melatonin and passionflower seem to help you. I may try them. Thanks for your posts. They help.
GC

Insomnia is usually my worst symptom, it seems to be for a lot of people. I hope you find something to help.

[JessG]

Woo hoo for another drop!! You can totally do this

[Songbird]

Thanks, Jess!

[Mixter]

Great news!!!

[scotslass]

Well I've been at 6.5 for 9 weeks and will not drop again until the new year.I tried to go to 6mgs a few weeks ago but it didn't go well so here I am.Songbird you help me have patience honey.I read your posts and think to myself that it's okay to just go with flow and let your body tell you when it's time to drop again.You are doing great honey!

[kizzie]

Hi Songbird - glad your drop to 6mg going well. You are getting there :-) x

[Songbird]

Saw my doc this morning, to get another script for the liquid. He was great, he's very supportive of the way I'm tapering. I read so many doctor horror stories on here, it makes me appreciate my doctor even more.

I'm starting to feel the drop now. Had a bit of trouble getting to sleep last night, had to take a bit more passionflower and melatonin (0.5mg), which worked well. It is amazing how my system is so sensitive it feels such a seemingly tiny drop.

I'm also having moments of feeling music more and almost feeling musically creative again. It is hard to describe, when I hear music sometimes, it kind of inspires other ideas in me. I'm not writing again yet, but I feel like the creativity is at the point of beginning to come back a little bit. This is a very exciting feeling, and sounds like a good thing, but actually it is also a warning sign. It means the dose is really getting down into the danger zone. Just before I crashed in 2008, I was getting my creativity and motivation back, I was getting very excited and wanting to write songs and record and get a band together, and then a few days later it all came crashing down. So while it will do me no good to worry about it, it does mean that I need to be very very careful now, to do only tiny drops and take plenty of time to fully stabilise each time.

[Songbird]

I'm back from Christmas and New Year holidays. Had a few sleep problems, still not feeling 100% stable. Have been using passionflower and valerian tinctures and melatonin. A few nights when it didn't work I resorted to half a zopiclone. I really didn't want to take it, but I just can't do the awake-all-night thing. Luckily it was only a couple of nights and only twice so far.

I've started having a weird problem where I start to feel extremely tired in the afternoon. If I lie down then I go to sleep for about three hours, and then quite often can't sleep that night. So I have to resist lying down at all in the mid to late afternoon and try to push through the tiredness. It usually starts about 3-ish and if I can get through to about 6-ish then I'm usually okay. I think I read about someone else here having a similar problem.

Another time I couldn't sleep I think it was because I had been reading a very suspenseful book and perhaps that ramped up my sensitive nervous system too much. It wasn't even scary, just suspenseful. I may have to be careful again with the kind of books I read.

It is also getting more tricky about what time I try to go to sleep. I don't feel drowsy but still sometimes get tired signs such as yawning. If I stay up for a lot later then it gets more and more difficult to go to sleep. So I have to stay tuned in to my body and try to figure out when is the best time to try to go to sleep. Luckily I haven't been having much in the way of bedtime anxiety, apart from the few nights when I couldn't sleep and resorted to zopiclone. Just a bit of a mild apprehensive feeling sometimes.

It is definitely harder to fall asleep these days. I have to lie very still for quite a while until my body calms down and then if I'm lucky I start to drift off. The nights when I had problems, I got to the point of drifting off and then suddenly my brain woke me up. Very annoying. It happened several times and after a few times it was woken up too much to go back to sleep again.

I think I've also been having some mild 'sleep state misperception'. Some nights I wake after an hour or two and my first thought is that I haven't actually been asleep, but been lying awake for an hour or so. I think what has happened is that I've just been in a very light sleep state. I've found that if I can get back to sleep after this first waking, then I get deeper sleep and usually sleep better for the rest of the night.

I've also been having some hormonal issues - the PMS as usual - but instead of feeling better afterwards, for the past couple of months I've actually had almost a week of feeling mildly depressed and tearful. And then I go back to feeling 'normal' again.

I've been at 6mg for 6 weeks now, and still don't feel stable. Also, I know I've still got some gallstones that need to be cleansed out again. So I may be at this dose for a while longer. It is frustrating, but I'm doing okay. The symptoms are relatively mild. The sleep issues are the worst, the mild depression and tearfulness, and my rhinitis has been somewhat bothersome. I also have a feeling of mild depersonalisation a lot of the time, I hardly ever feel like I'm fully present, like I'm 'really here'. This is only mildly annoying. Also my lower back has been playing up a bit, but nothing really major (whether this is at all related to w/d, I can't tell). Mostly I'm feeling pretty good, just need to get that sleep stabilised.