Female question

[Dawn B.]

Hi girls,
I was wondering if any of you have had menstural alomalies since being in w/d? After I did the CT from 7 mg. I had a period, then a week later another one. I did see the GYN, and had a sono, showed multiple fibroids, (that did not surprise me) a thicker than usual uterus. She wanted to to a biopsy, and tried, but could not get the pipette in, so it never happened. Over the reast of the year I had another month with back to back periods, then one with no period, then I just had that back to back things again, and now a tiny bit of spotting. I have another sono schedule. Okay, now having said all that, I asked internal medicine doc who I saw, who I had never seen before if there was a test to check horomones. She said FSH would tell if I was in menopause. The test came back normal.
About the first thing out of her mouth was, "You know we treat menopause with Paxil". I had just started to tell her that all this started up after I quit the Paxil. As soon as she said that I knew the conversation was over with.
So I went to a site about menopause and I'm telling you, every withdrawal symptoms, even the more off the wall ones like internal shaking, are there as menopause.
I'm wondering how a person could distinguish between w/d and meno, and if any of you ladies have felt you might be menopausal while in w/d and how you delt with it?
I'm afraid if I start trying hormone creams and stuff it might just make things worse.
Thanks <><

[rain]

This isn't going to answer your question, but I had no idea that internal shaking had anything to do with withdrawal.

Your question ... I doubt that anyone could possibly distinguish between w/d and meno. If you are in that age range, it could be either or both. Course, if the FSH test came back normal, I would guess it's w/d.

[Dawn B.]

I just read up on the FSH test online. This test only determines if you are finished with menopause, as in no more periods. I thought that was what this doctor was saying, and obviously that is not the case with me, which I told her, so basically this test was useless.
The internal shaking, if you have not had it you are lucky. I've talked to a lot of people who have had it, or internal "vibrations'. It's like shaking or vibrating on the inside.

[CMG69]

How old are you? You could be in perimenopause, which could last years before actual menopause, which the FSH test would show, and would also be cease of periods for a full year, but the hormones go wacky for a good while before menopause and could have symptoms very similar to w/d and they do treat hot flashes, mood swings etc w/antidepressants. There are also hormones to consider, either in pill form or creams that might help. I see a functional medicine OB/GYN who is quite up on all the hormonal changes. Did you ever notice your symptoms were worse around ovulation or the cycle time? Hormones can wreak havoc on all of us, whether we are perimenopausal, postpartum, or just premenstrual...

[BlueEyes]

One of the things I was planning to explore was BHRT after I was done with all of this withdrawal "stuff". But,like you said, I see ALOT of the same symptoms as withdrawal are the same as for perimenopause.

I've always thought my initial symptoms WERE due to hormonal issues as this all started for me right after I gave birth to my son 19 years ago! At the time, they had NO IDEA what to do for me and hence, my journey with Prozac began.

Anyway, back to what you were saying...

All I can say about my periods is that while actually IN withdrawal they were coming every 2.5 to 3 weeks. Now that I'm totally off the stuff, they're more like every 6-8 weeks. I like THAT part of it, that they're coming alot less often (I am just about 50 after all!), but the PMS is truly AWFUL. During that particular week, I usually feel like I'm pretty much losing my mind!

I understand your fear of trying any kind of hormone creams, etc. I feel the same way - which is why I plan on giving myself at least a year of not trying ANYTHING. Then I'll "re-asses"......

Terri

[Dawn B.]

One of the problems I seem to be encountering in terminology. This last doc I saw didn't seem to understand 'peri-menopause'. Now I'm sur that is the leading up to the end of periods, over possibly many years. I thought 'menopause' was after you were all done. Now I'm hearing this term, "Post menopause" for when it's all done with. I went on a site to research further and it said to INSIST on tests to check progesterone, estrogen, testoerone, etc. WHY do I keep being told my doctor after doctor that there are no tests for this? I've asked several doctor now. Has anyone here had these tests?
Mainly the reason I want to know is that I know there are natural progesterone and estrogen creams, but how do you know what to use if you don't know what's going on?

[CMG69]

I would try to find a functional medicine doctor if I were you, they are much more in tune with both traditional and non-traditional medicine. There are tests for all the hormones and although some tests won't give you the whole picture because they change so rapidly, certainly estrogen is relevant. There is a natural progesterone called prometrium that is actually a pill, but it is a bioidentical hormone and these hormones act like the ones in your body as opposed to other hormones like in HRT or birth control pills that are synthetic and can help but can also cause other problems. The estrogen creams may work as well. A doctor would need to evaluate how much and what type of supplemental hormones may help you. What are your symptoms now and how have you been doing since you have been off the paxil since 2008?

[Dawn B.]

Well, my symptoms re: the withdrawal have decreased. It's been up and down, but in general getting better.It's the newest 'thing' that has me on this menopausal thing. In the last year I've had three months that I had two periods with only a few days in between, 1 mo with no period. This month I had a period, went 4 day w/o then had another period, then I got a bacterial vag infection, used the suppositories from the doc, then started spotting for the last 4 days. The spotting is new. Other than this, things have improved. Everything else started two years ago after my first huge drop in Paxil, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind it's w/d. The thing is, EVERY time I've brought up the w/d subject to a doctor they immediately ask how old I am and blame it all on 'my age'. The GYN I saw last year after the first double period, which was only 3 or 4 months after my total CT simply would not believe it could be w/d and had me labeled as menopausal within 5 minutes, and that was the end of the discussion.
When I went to see this new doc last week for the infection, I started to bring up the w/d issue, and she immediately said, "you know we treat menopause with Paxil". That was the end of that discussion. It angers me, like everyone else here that the medical community for the most part simply will not acknowledge w/d.
When you read a list of menopausal symptoms, it looks like someone in w/d wrote it.
When you say Functional medicine doc, I am not familiar with that term. I have a homeopath, and she was going to get me a test kit for hormones, that was going to cost me $350. I don't know what happened, but she never came through on it. Must have forgotten and it's a lot of money anyway. I have insurance with Scripps. Seems to me they should be able to run some sort of tests. Not that I want any of their synthetic hormones. But they could run the tests if I knew what to ask for. I have an app. Jan 12th with a GYN nurse practitioner, which I made that app. with her on purpose because often they are more likely to listen rather than label you in 5 minutes. But, I will say again, I have asked at least three WOMEN doctors for a hormone test now, and the only thing that has been offered was that FSH test.

[Toby 4 ever]

Hi Dawn - I am post meno so I have some idea of the roller coaster you are experiencing! You are right menopause and w/d are similar (altho) I would take meno ANYDAY over AD w/d. The think is, meno IS w/d - your body is in withdrawal from the hormone levels it enjoyed for many years!!! Any change like this is bound to throw everything into chaos!

Here is the rub IMHO - if you take hormones - and bios are hormones that carry the same risks - you are just prolonging the inevitable - I personally don't think it is safe to artificially medicate a natural process (particularly after what we have all been thru) and staying on hormones long term strikes me as dangerous - can you take them for a short time? Well, sure, but then guess what happens when you want to quit (even if you wean) That said, if you choose NOT to take hormone replacement - why do you need your levels tested? I can tell you right now they are all over the place and will need some time to settle - If you DO choose to take hormones then yes, you need to have the tests to determine where you are in this (but understand what where you are today is NOT where you may be in a few months so there is a lot of 'tweaking' involved all the time)

I wish to god I had this wisdom 15 years ago but alas no.....instead the treatment of choice for my doctor was prozac....enough said, eh?

You hang in there kiddo - at the very least get to the bottom the fibroids which could be causing a lot of this misery - I suspect that you are producing excess estrogen which fuels fibroids and can create the heavy bleeding....get a sonogram and tell the doc you want to hear options!

best, toby

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Toby 4 ever

Here is the rub IMHO - if you take hormones - and bios are hormones that carry the same risks - you are just prolonging the inevitable - I personally don't think it is safe to artificially medicate a natural process (particularly after what we have all been thru) and staying on hormones long term strikes me as dangerous - can you take them for a short time? Well, sure, but then guess what happens when you want to quit (even if you wean) That said, if you choose NOT to take hormone replacement - why do you need your levels tested?

So true, so true! Menopause isn't something that needs to be "treated", when that treatment only comes with huge risks for what is a natural process. I'm shocked at how many of my fellow "nurses" can't believe that I'm not taking anything for menopause....WTH? It's a normal process...why would one play with what our bodies do naturally?
Yes, it sucks some days, but it won't last forever.

As for the "we treat menopause with Paxil"...wow, that is extremely insulting to all woman.

[AussieGirl]

Here here Scotty. I have the same thing with fellow nurses at work too!!!!

[paxilgirl]

Dawn, the fibroids could be playing a big part of the wacky periods. My mom has fibroids and her periods were all over the place in her 40s and 50s. It wasn't until she went into menopause that her fibroids began to shrink and her periods stopped naturally.

She never took anything for menopause and from what I understand, it passed without any symptoms (save for the occasional hot flash).

[Dawn B.]

Thatnks guys for the input, it really helps. I totally agree, menopause is natural, and supposed to happen and I have no plans on taking any hormones. The only thing I was thinking about it there are natural creams, for estrogen and progresterone, but I wondered how you would know what to use if you didn't know what you were low/high in? Seems like it's just a guess, and that is why I was wondering about hormone tests. I know natural progesterone cream is made from yams. Sounds like it's more likely I'd need that than estrogen, but I know a lady who had a hysto-wreck that takes estrogen and says she's miserable w/o it. Might be refreshing to you all to know that I know quite a few ladies who are post menopause, most due to a hysto-wreck, that never took an hormones! What a wonder, huh?
I didn't know the fibroids could make periods screwy, but I did know they were associated with heavy bleeding. Which, I used to bleed a LOT, and that has decreased a lot. Just more periods! Oh joy.
So Scotty, or anyone, I have another question. GYNs are always wanting to do unterine biospies. As I mentioned earlier, the doc tried that with me and couldn't get the pipette in. I'm wondering, if person has many fibroids, which my sono showed I did, how would a doc actually be sure they got a sample of the uterus, and not a fibroid, unless this biopsy was done while being scanned?

[scotty]

Taking any hormones, natural or synthetic, has the same end result...delaying a natural process.

I don't know what the fascination is with GYN's doing uterine biopsies, for what are obvious sign signs of menopause. Irregular periods are classic signs of menopause.

[TryingtoGetWell]

Originally Posted by Dawn B.

I totally agree, menopause is natural, and supposed to happen and I have no plans on taking any hormones. The only thing I was thinking about it there are natural creams, for estrogen and progresterone, but I wondered how you would know what to use if you didn't know what you were low/high in?

Estrogen and progesterone are hormones!

Wild yams can only be converted to progesterone in a lab; those products are not natural, even though the progesterone is synthesized from yam. The body does not convert yams to progesterone or we'd have a lot of kids and guys ramped up with a lot of progesterone! It has to be done through a lab process that is not a natural process.

Many wild yam products are sold for menopause - I've never tried them (or any hormone therapy for menopause, for that matter) but I've heard that unless they've been converted to progesterone in a lab they don't help menopause symptoms.

Hormone tests can be run by any GP or family doctor, and if you're insured should certainly not cost $350! A "kit" at that price sounds more like the first cousin of those neurotransmitter tests that are useless at best (and actually very misleading since hormone and neurotransmitter levels change even throughout the day). The tests done by a regular lab are reliable for determining if you're in menopause, which can be useful if you're trying to narrow down the reason for a problem. Other than that I think they're a waste of time - my doctor insisted on running them when I was in menopause because she was incredulous that I'd be menopausal so young, but I knew I was - she gave me a strange look when I said I could just feel it - and gee big surprise the test showed I was definitely menopausal. (And my mother had gone through menopause when she was many years younger than I was.)

But a doctor who isn't familiar with perimenopause? I'd be wary of that one. Menopause is a process, not an overnight phenomenon when your periods stop, and as was pointed out earlier in this thread, perimenopause can go on for years.

Is the reason the doctors want to do biopsies because of the fibroids rather than menopause?

[Dawn B.]

Originally Posted by TryingtoGetWell

Estrogen and progesterone are hormones!

Wild yams can only be converted to progesterone in a lab; those products are not natural, even though the progesterone is synthesized from yam. Many wild yam products are sold for menopause - I've never tried them (or any hormone therapy for menopause, for that matter) but I've heard that unless they've been converted to progesterone in a lab they don't help menopause symptoms.

Are you saying a lab has done something to the yams that is synthetic? I'm not sure about that. I'll do a 'for example'. The whey protein powder often touted as the 'cure' for w/d. That is not an 'un-natural' product, but in a lab they have sorted out the part they want, and disgarded the rest. Or, Garlic supplement might be a better example. They have processed it down to make a tiny pill super potent, with the natural occuring parts of the garlic. It's not a synthetic product, it's just been processed down to super potentcy compared to how it's found in nature. I was under the impression this was the same with yams. They wre processed, removing bulk, water, etc. and leaving the part that contains the progesterone. Like soy naturally contains high amounts of estrogen. Am I making sense?

Hormone tests can be run by any GP or family doctor, and if you're insured should certainly not cost $350! A "kit" at that price sounds more like the first cousin of those neurotransmitter tests that are useless at best (and actually very misleading since hormone and neurotransmitter levels change even throughout the day). The tests done by a regular lab are reliable for determining if you're in menopause, which can be useful if you're trying to narrow down the reason for a problem. Other than that I think they're a waste of time - my doctor insisted on running them
I'm amazed. I have asked three doctors to run the hormone tests, and keep being told they are useless. Granted, they may only tell what level of the hormone at that given moment, but if there was some huge lack or high amount of one, it would show up.
This last doc ran the FSH, which now I'm finding out only tells you if you are basically post menopause, and that is obvious I'm not, which I told her.

But a doctor who isn't familiar with perimenopause? I'd be wary of that one. Menopause is a process, not an overnight phenomenon when your periods stop, and as was pointed out earlier in this thread, perimenopause can go on for years.

I keep running into the terminology problem. If I am understanding correctly, peri- meno is the years leading up the full menopause, the years that things are screwy. But then what is the difference between 'menopause' and 'post-menopause'?

Is the reason the doctors want to do biopsies because of the fibroids rather than menopause?

A year ago when I had the first time I had two periods back to back, I went to the GYN. She ordered a pelvic sono. The results said I had fibroids, a cyst on one ovary, which may or may not have been something that was going to ovulate, and my uterus was "Thicker that she'd like to see". I guess the thicker is why she wanted to do the biopsy. But after she was not successful, then she remarked that is may have just been thicker because I was only 5 days away from having a period. So then it was decided I would go back for another sono in three months, only this time it would be directly after a period. I was never able to get that timing in sync with an app. for the sono and my period, and after trying a few times, I gave up. Basically I didn't want to do it.
This time around I decided I wanted to go forth with the 2nd sono, my GYN probably doesn't even know about it, because I asked this other doc to write the order.
<><

[scotty]

The yam thing is fallacy, geez, if this was true then men who ate alot of yams would have boobs!

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/d...t-wildyam.html

"It has been hypothesized that wild yam ( Dioscorea villosa and other Dioscorea species) possesses dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)-like properties and acts as a precursor to human sex hormones such as estrogen and progesterone. Based on this proposed mechanism, extracts of the plant have been used to treat painful menstruation, hot flashes, and headaches associated with menopause. However, these uses are based on a misconception that wild yam contains hormones or hormonal precursors - largely due to the historical fact that progesterone, androgens, and cortisone were chemically manufactured from Mexican wild yam in the 1960s. It is unlikely that this chemical conversion to progesterone occurs in the human body. The hormonal activity of some topical wild yam preparations has been attributed to adulteration with synthetic progesterone by manufacturers, although there is limited evidence in this area."

[Dawn B.]

This is an interesting arcticle. But, and that is a BIG BUT, what about all the women who clain to get major relief from these creams? Are they saying it's psycho-somatic?
Makes me want to try it just to find out!! LOL.

[rain]

Originally Posted by scotty

The yam thing is fallacy, geez, if this was true then men who ate alot of yams would have boobs!

!!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Dawn B.

This is an interesting arcticle. But, and that is a BIG BUT, what about all the women who clain to get major relief from these creams? Are they saying it's psycho-somatic?
Makes me want to try it just to find out!! LOL.

Progesterone creams are made from progesterone, not the yam based stuff that is referenced.

[paxilgirl]

I've done a lot of readings of women who embrace the menopusal process, even it takes years to get through. I'm not at that stage yet, but I know a woman who is in a constant state of hot flashes and has a fan on her back at all times.

It's pain in the *** I know. The irregular periods would drive anyone nuts but know that it will ride out in the end.

Are your fibroids bothersome in any other way?

Have you looked into uterine embolization??? I have a relative who went through that and her horrible pain and symptoms because of fibroids ceased completely. She also couldn't have any more children because she could not produce a uterine lining any longer. (She had two boys already).

[Dawn B.]

I have an appointment for a pelvic sono today. And I'm fully flowing, if you know what I mean! Oh joy.
This has only just started to be a pain in the @!#$ this month. Hopefull it will not continue. I don't really care for the idea of things they do to the inside of the uterus to effect a 'cure'. I'm sure it does work for some, just doesn't sound wonderful.
The creams I'm referring to are the ones you can buy at a health store, not prescription. I don't think there is much difference in a prescription hormone between taking it orally and rubbing a cream on, it's still synthetic and unnatural. I'm wondering about the natural stuff. Anyone here try it? I did once before w/d. I always had heavy periods, so I used it for two months, and my periods were not has heavy those month. I quit using with with w/d happened.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by paxilgirl

I've done a lot of readings of women who embrace the menopusal process, even it takes years to get through. I'm not at that stage yet, but I know a woman who is in a constant state of hot flashes and has a fan on her back at all times.

That would be me! LOL! I've been doing the hot flash thing for 5 years now...irregular periods, sweating....and you just keep doing what you do and you sweat a bit.

No way in the world I'm going to chemically alter a natural process(medication or "natural" )

[Toby 4 ever]

Well Scotty that about sums it up! It is really no fun and when I was going thru it I remembered all the ladies my Granny's age who used to slap the 'lavendar powder' all over them....probably to absorb the sweat and mask the odor!

I bought a bunch of those oriental paper fans and kept them everywhere including my purse and could give hoot what anyone thinks if I whip that thing out....I just say I am having my own 'personal summer'

Dressing in layers is the way to go!
Drink a lot of water and suck on ice chips...
also those cooling neck wraps work very well and I also kept a stack of large men's cotten t-shirts next to my bed for the night time sweats!

Dawn - I never used any of those 'natural' creams either....I was afraid of upsetting the apple cart as my body was trying to adjust to the meno madness....natural or not these things can affect the balance you body is trying to achieve - good luck with the sonogram - let us know what the say!

[BlueEyes]

In my case, I can handle the hot flashes (or "heat waves" as I tend to call them!) - it's the mood swings that drive me crazy! One minute I'm totally fine and an hour later I can be all weepy and sad.....that will pass and then hours later I'll be ready to tear someone's hair out for just LOOKING at me the wrong way!

Terri