Another Failed Withdrawal

[NeedToProvide]

Hi Fellow Users,

After 7 years of using Paxil 20 mg, I decided to come off it. Although I felt good on Paxil, I noticed that I had become less interested in things, and did not care enough about providing sufficient income for my family. That is why I wanted to become my old - more aggressive - self again. Never needed Paxil before and was never this anxious or depressed before.

After reading the e-book and the documented taper, being a healthy physically active male, started in Feb 2010, with 15 mg, feeling great, March 16, down to 10 mg. The physical withdrawal symptoms were worst between day 4 and 8, but then OK after that.

Then by the End of April, started to have trouble sleeping, and thus took an Oxazepam 15 mg (Benzo) for sleeping almost every night. Either because of the Paxil reduction or the daytime - inter dose - Oxazepam withdrawal, started to get more and more nervous.

By May 15th, the doctor upped my Paxil to 30 (which was a big mistake?). The increased nervousness from this caused me to take even more Oxazepam for sleeping (between 22.5 and 30 mg at night only).

By June 15, the Oxazepam (3-10hr half-life) daytime anxiety was unbearable and it started to work less and less for sleeping, and the Paxil 30 did not help things at all. So the doctor discontinued Oxazepam, and switched to Remeron 7.5 mg for sleeping, which seemed to work. However, had severe protracted Benzo withdraw symptoms.

By July 1, only taking Paxil 20, since 30 did not work, and stopped Remeron, using hypnotherapy for sleeping, visiting a naturopath for protracted anxiety/depression. http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm#t3

Now by August 15, still feel anxious, depressed, but sleeping has improved. Being completely healthy, mentally and physically, until April, I feel completely ruined from all these terrible drugs and missed a complete summer.

Now I feel like I am trapped with a drug that might not work anymore and is impossible to come off from, and suffering gastrointestinal problems.

Questions:
1] Could I still be suffering from Protracted Benzo withdrawal; or is the Paxil not working anymore? I read some post by "Luc" that it could work opposite. Please explain/share. Should I reduce quickly then?

2] Visited a psychiatrist in June. He said, just keep on taking it for the next couple of years as it "should always works the same". After a "couple of years", then what? Hell again? Has anybody had any success taking Paxil for a lifetime? I think I should still try to come off again, and that he is only setting me up for failure...

3] Switching to another drug after Paxil stops working: I have read on this forum, that switching has not worked out successfully for most people, as they always ended up back on Paxil. Any successful switchers?

4] The 10 percent taper: this always seems to be from the current dose, and because of that, you can never reach zero?

5] Does anybody know any good anti-drug psychiatrists in the Vancouver,BC/Washington area; or remotely available via Skype?

5] I need to live and provide for my family; please help. Thanks.

[daisyydaisy]

First of al you are weaning wayyy too quickly off the paxil which means YOU WILL REBOUND. I'm going 2.5 mg drops every 6 weeks or longer. Slow and steady wins the race. YES..it may take 2 years but You'll come out of it with th e least amount of side effects. Why the rush to get off of it so fast??? Maintain your quality of life and do it in slow steps. I know its not fair. I'm mad too but its the only way I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by NeedToProvide

The 10 percent taper: this always seems to be from the current dose, and because of that, you can never reach zero?

Not true. Obviously, at some point, you stop. For most, that's around the 1 mg point.

You've got a few things going on here - more than likely, you are experincing benzo w/d. Add to that the dose changes with Paxil, the rapid weaning and addition of Remeron; it explains why you're feeling the way you are.

I wouldn't do a thing, until you're feeling more stable; let your brain and body adjust. Then, start slowly tapering Paxil, as recommended.

[imokay]

Is it REALLY a failed attempt? If you have learned something from the last attempt then you have NOT failed you have just learned something to use for your next wean.

[NeedToProvide]

Thanks for all the responses.

7) So the only medium-term option is to reduce; not switch or stay put? My GP was thinking of Effexor; but I agree it is best to be drug-free.

8. I am concerned about rebound panic attacks/anxiety; but does the slow taper method limit this?

9) How long does it take for the rebound effects to show up after each taper? Somebody said 4 weeks. Somebody else said you feel manic for the first 8 weeks and then it happens at 12 weeks? So should one wait 12 weeks between each taper? [BTW: I am not talking about the physical symptoms that occur between day 4 and 8]

Thanks.

NTP

[Cici]

Hi NTP,
Many people here have had real problems with Effexor - I'm sure some of them will chime in to back up L Crawford's advice not to switch meds, to stabilise on your current 20mgs, then taper slowly at 10% reductions.

I had two attempts to quit - like you I was prescribed Oxazepam to counter side effects. I found this site and tapered slowly, and successfully. I found I could make drops every 3-4 weeks, but everyone is different - you have to listen to your body and take your time. It's not a race to the finish - it's a journey to get there while maintaining a quality of life. You will get lots of advice and support here to help you on your way.

Best wishes.

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by NeedToProvide

9) How long does it take for the rebound effects to show up after each taper? Somebody said 4 weeks. Somebody else said you feel manic for the first 8 weeks and then it happens at 12 weeks? So should one wait 12 weeks between each taper? [BTW: I am not talking about the physical symptoms that occur between day 4 and 8]

It varies between individuals, you will find your own pattern as you start tapering. Most people wait between 3 weeks and 6 weeks after a dose drop before dropping again. If you do small dose drops (no more than 10%) and wait to stabilise in between, the w/d symptoms will usually be fairly mild. This allows people to continue working and have a reasonable quality of life while tapering.

Switching meds works for some people, but for many it just makes everything much much worse. I would avoid the Effexor, it is even harder to get off than Paxil.

For now, I would recommend staying on your current dose of 20mg and waiting until you stabilise. This could take anywhere from 3 weeks to 8 weeks or occasionally it can take longer. Be patient and allow your body to adjust and rebalance itself.

[NeedToProvide]

Hi Songbird; I noticed you dropped from Jan 07 to Feb 08, but it was still too fast; i guess? But then the next time, you dropped pretty quickly from 20 (6 Dec) to 10 (16 Feb); was that OK? I dropped obviously too fast from 20 (31 Jan 2010) to 10 (16 March 2010). Do you think you can get down to zero eventually; or is it really hard? Thanks.

[NeedToProvide]

Paxil Poop Out

Does this mean:

a) WORST CASE: that your body has adjusted completely to the drug as if you were on zero paxil before; and therefore the withdrawal is at its worst, since one would have to go to "Paxil -20"?

b) BEST CASE: that your body does not really accept the drug any longer - in the blood or something like that -, and therefore, the withdrawal is not too bad?

Thanks for any insight

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by NeedToProvide

Hi Songbird; I noticed you dropped from Jan 07 to Feb 08, but it was still too fast; i guess? But then the next time, you dropped pretty quickly from 20 (6 Dec) to 10 (16 Feb); was that OK? I dropped obviously too fast from 20 (31 Jan 2010) to 10 (16 March 2010). Do you think you can get down to zero eventually; or is it really hard? Thanks.

That's because I've tapered before and know my own pattern. I can get down to 10mg fairly easily, under 10mg is harder and under 5mg extremely difficult. Some people need to go slower between 20mg and 10mg, it's an individual thing. I don't know if I'll ever make it down to zero but I'm going to try again, going slower than last time.

[NeedToProvide]

Hi Songird,

Are you still able to function OK and sleep OK; thanks.

[Songbird]

I am functioning okay but have had some quite bad sleep problems as my dose has got lower, also some anxiety. The problems for me started around 7.5mg and get worse the lower I go. There are some members who have had a similar pattern, but then other members who have a totally different w/d experience, it is very individual. You need to learn to listen to your body and learn what works for you.

[NeedToProvide]

Yes, for me the sleep problems came on 10 mg after about being 5 weeks on it. When going slower to 10, would that make the sleep problems less bad; as I went way to fast down? Thanks.

[Songbird]

I think in general, the slower you go, the milder the symptoms. By slower I mean smaller drops, and waiting until you stabilise before dropping again.