Advice for new member?

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 06:32 AM

Hey all, good to find this forum. Just have an issue im struggling with.
The advice on tapering here seems fairly straight forward, however I need to come off 2 drugs. Im guessing tapering 2 at once isn't the best idea, but doing one then the other sounds like it would take too long.
Have had to stop at 200mg for over a month. Am considering keeping the seroquel taper going heaps slower than needed (maybe 3mth intervals instead of 1), and doing the lexapro normally. At least I would be getting some sleep that way!
Thanks for any advice.

LCrawford67 · 01-12-2011, 06:50 AM

Welcome, Matty!

You can't look at it as taking too much time. You've been on both drugs for 6 years so what's another year, especially when your dose is heading south? It's more important to maintain quality of life, than rush getting off the medication and suffer through w/d.

So yes, the advice is one drug at a time. You've made it down to 200 mgs of Seroquel so stay there and taper the Lexapro if that's the one you're most interested in getting off of.

Lucy · 01-12-2011, 07:12 AM

I can't offer advice on getting off 2 drugs, but I would like to point out that 40 mg of lexapro is a really big dose of lexapro. Most of us on this site who have taken lexapro took 10 mg or less.

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 07:16 AM

Yea your right, thanks for the help. I guess it gives you more time to learn ways of dealing with your problems naturallly.

LCrawford67 · 01-12-2011, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty77

Yea your right, thanks for the help. I guess it gives you more time to learn ways of dealing with your problems naturallly.

Exactly! I always tell people; getting off the drugs is great, but you still have your original issue to deal with. Tapering slowly gives you time to seek therapy, make lifestyle changes, etc. and learn the proper coping skills needed for once your'e off the medication.

Celaine · 01-12-2011, 07:21 AM

When I came off both Paxil and Trazodone, I did one drug at a time. I began tapering off both before I found this site, so if I'd known about how severe the WD's would have been, I would have taken longer. My taper was approximately 9 months for both drugs. However, I think it could have been worse.

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy

I can't offer advice on getting off 2 drugs, but I would like to point out that 40 mg of lexapro is a really big dose of lexapro. Most of us on this site who have taken lexapro took 10 mg or less.

Well I just took the advice of my psychiatrist, without knowing any better. Wont make that mistake again. At least I can start of with bigger drops initially.

Mixter · 01-12-2011, 07:27 AM

You should taper off Seroquel first, I recommend a 10% rate each 2 weeks for Seroquel or you could do a faster if you feel it's ok for your body and CNS. Yes 40 mg of Lex is high, but it is not so uncommon. Many were prescribed very high doses of Effexor (in ballpark range of 30 to 60 mg equivalent of Lexapro), I was prescribed 300 mg (equivalent to 40 mg Lex) and after I attempted to stabilize on Effexor I did go up high as 450 mg (60 mg of Lex equivalent). The issue here with high doses are emotional numbness, side effects and sleepiness. Apathy, anhedonia. Which led me into abusing drugs and I did not enjoy movies at all at this high dose.

I am very angry at the docs, but now the last time the docs at my psych clinic,
do not recommend the high dosages they prescribed before in the past due to these types of side effects.

Actually, worsened depression was also one of them.

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 07:51 AM

Cant relate to those side effects, the seroquel used to zombify me so much I couldn't tell what the lex was doing. Good to hear your docs don't prescribe such high doses anymore.

NoRx4me · 01-12-2011, 08:07 AM

Were you prescribed both of these at the same time?

The Seroquel is probably covering up some side effects from the Lexapro. Of course it could be... the Lexapro is covering up side effects of the Seroquel.

So, it depends on how you're feeling really. If you're feeling super anxious and can't sleep, etc. then the Lexapro should be reduced. If you can't get out of bed without 16 hours of sleep, then the Seroquel.

As long as you go super slow... you'll be able to gage which is causing adverse effects (hopefully!). You might need to switch up in the middle. I think that's what you're doing now, right? Stopping at 200mg and tapering the Lexapro some?

I have noticed when people ask for advice on tapering Benzo's and SSRI's; people on this board will say SSRI's first and people on Benzo boards will say Benzo's first. I think it just depends on which is giving you problems. That's really hard to say when they were started at the same time, I'm sure.

There's still not much info out there for tapering anti-psychotics, unfortunately.

A couple resourses that may be helpful:

http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/20...for-beginners/

http://theicarusproject.net/download...e1Edonline.pdf

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 08:16 AM

Yea I was thinking of starting the lexapro. And seroquel is basically for supressing mania, so you may be right it might be helpful to stay on most of it to ease the lex w/d.

NoRx4me · 01-12-2011, 08:22 AM

SSRI's are known to cause "mania". It's on the FDA label. Although, the wording makes it appear that "bipolar illness" was missed by the doc, instead of fully blaming the drug.

Best of Luck! Just don't forget to go slow.

alexxxten · 01-12-2011, 08:32 AM

Matty I think too, you should begin the taper, but very slow, and in my opinion the SSRI should be the first.

NoRx4me, I just read you was on meds beetween 1995-2008 It's a LOOONG period. Are u ok now? :-|

NoRx4me · 01-12-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

NoRx4me, I just read you was on meds beetween 1995-2008 It's a LOOONG period. Are u ok now? :-|

Yep! Just trying to figure out what I want to do with my life. I feel I lost those years in terms of emotional/intellectual development but I have no "mental illness" and can't believe I ever thought I did.

scotty · 01-12-2011, 09:18 AM

Holy cow...1000mg of Seroquel? I'm very curious about what brought you to these drugs...at these doses.

texgirl · 01-12-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Holy cow...1000mg of Seroquel? I'm very curious about what brought you to these drugs...at these doses.

I don't know much about Seroquel, but 1000mg to 200mg is a 80% dose reduction in 3 months.

kathleen2 · 01-12-2011, 10:05 AM

Oh my....such high doses---and I thought my 20mg of lexapro was really high!

As you reduce, or before you even start, you'll want to devote serious time to tackling the reasons you were rx'd in the first place. It will strengthen your reserves and leave you better able to deal with whatever withdrawal throws at you.

Go slow--expect it to take at least a year, and likely several---be open to taking "breaks" and stabilizing at doses for long periods of time, if needed--

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 10:25 AM

Seroquel for schizophrenia which i did need initially after being suicidal, or I might not be here now. Lexapro for depression although it hasn't worked that well. Doc put me on higher dosages hoping it would 'fix' my problems.
But I realised a few months ago that I was ready to cope without them.

Came down using scissors to cut a bit more off a tablet each night, felt almost nothing until 3weeks after stopping at 200, then bam it hit me. For the last week and a half dizzyness, no appetite, memory and attention (even spelling) problems, like my brain is learning to process information all over again but hasn't got it right yet. But has also freed my mind and have been exercising, getting out of the house, eating better food, seeing friends more and am going to start studying. A bit frustrating but feel great.
Only thing is getting off lex seems a bit daunting at the moment, especially while still on some seroquel.

And yea I have been thinking about the underlying problems, and reckon I can overcome them

alexxxten · 01-12-2011, 10:44 AM

NoRx4me,
I tottaly lost a half of year with my illness. And I really don't know what to do. I HATE AD's, but after 3 months and a half I didn't see any improvement... and after all since Dec 22. I can't go out lonely, because I don't have energy to walk... motivation to go somewhere, and I know 100% my "low energy" is not a physically thing... my life is a hell now. But I think on this forum everybody says, that never back to AD's... after these.

scotty · 01-12-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty77

And yea I have been thinking about the underlying problems, and reckon I can overcome them

So what are you doing to help with the original problems?

LCrawford67 · 01-12-2011, 11:13 AM

Please keep this thread Matty's. If you want to have a conversation with another member posting in this thread, do it via PMs.

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 11:22 AM

Well I have GAD which I can get through with natural treatment and alot of effort.
And psychosis in that sometimes people can feel my emotions which is realy uncomfortable, kind of an energy interaction problem. I always knew it wasn't in my head but was really happening, just couldn't deal with it. eg. apparently you can use the energy to shield yourself, thus dealing with the root of the problem. Am going to have a chat with some reiki practitioners and see what they have to say about it. It does sound a bit weird to me, but drugs never dealt with the problem, and im quietly confident that there is help out there for this.

thanks for listening

kathleen2 · 01-12-2011, 11:26 AM

Matty, are you sure you want to totally go off meds? Either way, make sure you're getting lots of help and have a strong support system. Schizophrenia isn't something you should manage all by yourself. I frankly think that, though psych meds are grossly over-prescribed, the brain can be ill just like every other organ can, and meds can be useful in treating it in tandem with other methods.

If you start to experience suicidal or violent ideation, be sure to reach out immediately!

Matty77 · 01-12-2011, 11:53 AM

Am seeing a psychologist for the first time soon, so am getting some help

NoRx4me · 01-12-2011, 12:16 PM

I have read dozens of stories of recovery without meds from people diagnosed with psychosis and schizophrenia.

Check out: http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/

http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/re...psychosis-etc/

http://madnessradio.net/

There are links on those sites that may be useful too.

01-12-2011, 06:32 AM	#1
Matty77 Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10	Advice for new member? Hey all, good to find this forum. Just have an issue im struggling with. The advice on tapering here seems fairly straight forward, however I need to come off 2 drugs. Im guessing tapering 2 at once isn't the best idea, but doing one then the other sounds like it would take too long. Have had to stop at 200mg for over a month. Am considering keeping the seroquel taper going heaps slower than needed (maybe 3mth intervals instead of 1), and doing the lexapro normally. At least I would be getting some sleep that way! Thanks for any advice. __________________ Seroquel 2005-2009: 400-1000mg Sep10-Dec10: tapered 1000-200mg Lexapro: 2005-2008: 10mg 2009: 20mg 2010: 40mg: will start taper soon

01-12-2011, 06:50 AM	#2
LCrawford67 Moderator "Everybody poops" Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 34,484	Re: Advice for new member? Welcome, Matty! You can't look at it as taking too much time. You've been on both drugs for 6 years so what's another year, especially when your dose is heading south? It's more important to maintain quality of life, than rush getting off the medication and suffer through w/d. So yes, the advice is one drug at a time. You've made it down to 200 mgs of Seroquel so stay there and taper the Lexapro if that's the one you're most interested in getting off of. __________________ aka LC aka Laurie C. Paxil, 20 mg since 1997, for IBS Two unsuccessful attempts to quit. Started tapering 11/27/06 PAXIL FREE 12/29/07 Today is the best day, EVER!

01-12-2011, 07:12 AM	#3
Lucy Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,388	Re: Advice for new member? I can't offer advice on getting off 2 drugs, but I would like to point out that 40 mg of lexapro is a really big dose of lexapro. Most of us on this site who have taken lexapro took 10 mg or less.

01-12-2011, 07:16 AM	#4
Matty77 Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10	Re: Advice for new member? Yea your right, thanks for the help. I guess it gives you more time to learn ways of dealing with your problems naturallly. __________________ Seroquel 2005-2009: 400-1000mg Sep10-Dec10: tapered 1000-200mg Lexapro: 2005-2008: 10mg 2009: 20mg 2010: 40mg: will start taper soon

01-12-2011, 07:21 AM	#6
Celaine Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 119	Re: Advice for new member? When I came off both Paxil and Trazodone, I did one drug at a time. I began tapering off both before I found this site, so if I'd known about how severe the WD's would have been, I would have taken longer. My taper was approximately 9 months for both drugs. However, I think it could have been worse. __________________ Began tapering from Paxil and Trazodone September 2009. Last dosage late May 2010.

01-12-2011, 07:27 AM	#8
Mixter Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,637	Re: Advice for new member? You should taper off Seroquel first, I recommend a 10% rate each 2 weeks for Seroquel or you could do a faster if you feel it's ok for your body and CNS. Yes 40 mg of Lex is high, but it is not so uncommon. Many were prescribed very high doses of Effexor (in ballpark range of 30 to 60 mg equivalent of Lexapro), I was prescribed 300 mg (equivalent to 40 mg Lex) and after I attempted to stabilize on Effexor I did go up high as 450 mg (60 mg of Lex equivalent). The issue here with high doses are emotional numbness, side effects and sleepiness. Apathy, anhedonia. Which led me into abusing drugs and I did not enjoy movies at all at this high dose. I am very angry at the docs, but now the last time the docs at my psych clinic, do not recommend the high dosages they prescribed before in the past due to these types of side effects. Actually, worsened depression was also one of them. __________________ SSRIs since -03, Celexa and Effexor. Ct benzos,Lyrica and Remeron -06/07 Ct taper Effexor 300-75mg summer -08 Ct 8 yr tobacco habit. Reinstated too late 3 mos out. Was upto 450 mg Effexor (equiv 120 mg Celexa). Switched to Celexa 20mg at 23 nov 2012 because cant stand being on Effexor XR. Much better now and more stable. Diagnosed with Lyme (had it since 6 yrs old - 1987) Treatment ongoing Holding my thumbs.. Celexa taper start. 2013. 7 april 19 mg 15 may 17.9 mg

01-12-2011, 07:51 AM	#9
Matty77 Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10	Re: Advice for new member? Cant relate to those side effects, the seroquel used to zombify me so much I couldn't tell what the lex was doing. Good to hear your docs don't prescribe such high doses anymore. __________________ Seroquel 2005-2009: 400-1000mg Sep10-Dec10: tapered 1000-200mg Lexapro: 2005-2008: 10mg 2009: 20mg 2010: 40mg: will start taper soon

01-12-2011, 08:07 AM	#10
NoRx4me Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 2,538	Re: Advice for new member? Were you prescribed both of these at the same time? The Seroquel is probably covering up some side effects from the Lexapro. Of course it could be... the Lexapro is covering up side effects of the Seroquel. So, it depends on how you're feeling really. If you're feeling super anxious and can't sleep, etc. then the Lexapro should be reduced. If you can't get out of bed without 16 hours of sleep, then the Seroquel. As long as you go super slow... you'll be able to gage which is causing adverse effects (hopefully!). You might need to switch up in the middle. I think that's what you're doing now, right? Stopping at 200mg and tapering the Lexapro some? I have noticed when people ask for advice on tapering Benzo's and SSRI's; people on this board will say SSRI's first and people on Benzo boards will say Benzo's first. I think it just depends on which is giving you problems. That's really hard to say when they were started at the same time, I'm sure. There's still not much info out there for tapering anti-psychotics, unfortunately. A couple resourses that may be helpful: http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/20...for-beginners/ http://theicarusproject.net/download...e1Edonline.pdf __________________ Poly-drugged for 13 years (SSRI's and Lamictal for most of that time). Ended up on 4 meds (Cymbalta, Lamictal, Vyvanse & Lithium) before losing my mind, then realizing the drugs were MAKING me ill. Drug free since 9/27/08

01-12-2011, 08:16 AM	#11
Matty77 Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10	Re: Advice for new member? Yea I was thinking of starting the lexapro. And seroquel is basically for supressing mania, so you may be right it might be helpful to stay on most of it to ease the lex w/d. __________________ Seroquel 2005-2009: 400-1000mg Sep10-Dec10: tapered 1000-200mg Lexapro: 2005-2008: 10mg 2009: 20mg 2010: 40mg: will start taper soon

01-12-2011, 08:22 AM	#12
NoRx4me Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 2,538	Re: Advice for new member? SSRI's are known to cause "mania". It's on the FDA label. Although, the wording makes it appear that "bipolar illness" was missed by the doc, instead of fully blaming the drug. Best of Luck! Just don't forget to go slow.

01-12-2011, 08:32 AM	#13
alexxxten Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 146	Re: Advice for new member? Matty I think too, you should begin the taper, but very slow, and in my opinion the SSRI should be the first. NoRx4me, I just read you was on meds beetween 1995-2008 It's a LOOONG period. Are u ok now? :-\| __________________ 2010 June-October TRITTICO (Trazodode)-100mg. for Anxiety/Depression-sever adverse effects! Anhedonia, low libido, muscle pain, I can't enjoy anything, I don't have motivation. Since 2010 Oct. I tried out diff. Vitamines, Herbals, like: Omega3, Bilomag, Rhodiolin, Kaunch, B vitamins (injections too), but without any result. Since 2011 Feb. I have hard derealization, major cognitive and motoric problems I can't leave my home either.

01-12-2011, 09:18 AM	#15
scotty Administrator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: new jersey Posts: 46,992	Re: Advice for new member? Holy cow...1000mg of Seroquel? I'm very curious about what brought you to these drugs...at these doses. __________________ AKA Laurie "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase." MLK

01-12-2011, 10:05 AM	#17
kathleen2 PP's Nancy Drew! Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,138	Re: Advice for new member? Oh my....such high doses---and I thought my 20mg of lexapro was really high! As you reduce, or before you even start, you'll want to devote serious time to tackling the reasons you were rx'd in the first place. It will strengthen your reserves and leave you better able to deal with whatever withdrawal throws at you. Go slow--expect it to take at least a year, and likely several---be open to taking "breaks" and stabilizing at doses for long periods of time, if needed-- __________________ * Paxil 20mg 1997-2004 (for panic, GAD, & OCD) * Two failed attempts to get off * Went on Lexapro Jan. 2005 during 2nd Paxil w/d attempt * Weaned off 1mg xanax w/ 1-month taper of .5 mg klonopin Currently weaning Lexapro: Sept.: 17.5 mg Oct.: 15mg Nov. 27th: 12.5 mg Jan. 1st: 10 mg April: 9mg June: 8mg Aug 1st: 7.5 mg Nov. 1st: 5mg June 5th: 4mg Feb. 1st: 2.5mg

01-12-2011, 10:25 AM	#18
Matty77 Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10	Re: Advice for new member? Seroquel for schizophrenia which i did need initially after being suicidal, or I might not be here now. Lexapro for depression although it hasn't worked that well. Doc put me on higher dosages hoping it would 'fix' my problems. But I realised a few months ago that I was ready to cope without them. Came down using scissors to cut a bit more off a tablet each night, felt almost nothing until 3weeks after stopping at 200, then bam it hit me. For the last week and a half dizzyness, no appetite, memory and attention (even spelling) problems, like my brain is learning to process information all over again but hasn't got it right yet. But has also freed my mind and have been exercising, getting out of the house, eating better food, seeing friends more and am going to start studying. A bit frustrating but feel great. Only thing is getting off lex seems a bit daunting at the moment, especially while still on some seroquel. And yea I have been thinking about the underlying problems, and reckon I can overcome them __________________ Seroquel 2005-2009: 400-1000mg Sep10-Dec10: tapered 1000-200mg Lexapro: 2005-2008: 10mg 2009: 20mg 2010: 40mg: will start taper soon

01-12-2011, 10:44 AM	#19
alexxxten Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 146	Re: Advice for new member? NoRx4me, I tottaly lost a half of year with my illness. And I really don't know what to do. I HATE AD's, but after 3 months and a half I didn't see any improvement... and after all since Dec 22. I can't go out lonely, because I don't have energy to walk... motivation to go somewhere, and I know 100% my "low energy" is not a physically thing... my life is a hell now. But I think on this forum everybody says, that never back to AD's... after these. __________________ 2010 June-October TRITTICO (Trazodode)-100mg. for Anxiety/Depression-sever adverse effects! Anhedonia, low libido, muscle pain, I can't enjoy anything, I don't have motivation. Since 2010 Oct. I tried out diff. Vitamines, Herbals, like: Omega3, Bilomag, Rhodiolin, Kaunch, B vitamins (injections too), but without any result. Since 2011 Feb. I have hard derealization, major cognitive and motoric problems I can't leave my home either.

01-12-2011, 11:13 AM	#21
LCrawford67 Moderator "Everybody poops" Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 34,484	Re: Advice for new member? Please keep this thread Matty's. If you want to have a conversation with another member posting in this thread, do it via PMs. __________________ aka LC aka Laurie C. Paxil, 20 mg since 1997, for IBS Two unsuccessful attempts to quit. Started tapering 11/27/06 PAXIL FREE 12/29/07 Today is the best day, EVER!

01-12-2011, 11:22 AM	#22
Matty77 Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10	Re: Advice for new member? Well I have GAD which I can get through with natural treatment and alot of effort. And psychosis in that sometimes people can feel my emotions which is realy uncomfortable, kind of an energy interaction problem. I always knew it wasn't in my head but was really happening, just couldn't deal with it. eg. apparently you can use the energy to shield yourself, thus dealing with the root of the problem. Am going to have a chat with some reiki practitioners and see what they have to say about it. It does sound a bit weird to me, but drugs never dealt with the problem, and im quietly confident that there is help out there for this. thanks for listening __________________ Seroquel 2005-2009: 400-1000mg Sep10-Dec10: tapered 1000-200mg Lexapro: 2005-2008: 10mg 2009: 20mg 2010: 40mg: will start taper soon

01-12-2011, 11:26 AM	#23
kathleen2 PP's Nancy Drew! Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,138	Re: Advice for new member? Matty, are you sure you want to totally go off meds? Either way, make sure you're getting lots of help and have a strong support system. Schizophrenia isn't something you should manage all by yourself. I frankly think that, though psych meds are grossly over-prescribed, the brain can be ill just like every other organ can, and meds can be useful in treating it in tandem with other methods. If you start to experience suicidal or violent ideation, be sure to reach out immediately! __________________ * Paxil 20mg 1997-2004 (for panic, GAD, & OCD) * Two failed attempts to get off * Went on Lexapro Jan. 2005 during 2nd Paxil w/d attempt * Weaned off 1mg xanax w/ 1-month taper of .5 mg klonopin Currently weaning Lexapro: Sept.: 17.5 mg Oct.: 15mg Nov. 27th: 12.5 mg Jan. 1st: 10 mg April: 9mg June: 8mg Aug 1st: 7.5 mg Nov. 1st: 5mg June 5th: 4mg Feb. 1st: 2.5mg

01-12-2011, 11:53 AM	#24
Matty77 Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 10	Re: Advice for new member? Am seeing a psychologist for the first time soon, so am getting some help __________________ Seroquel 2005-2009: 400-1000mg Sep10-Dec10: tapered 1000-200mg Lexapro: 2005-2008: 10mg 2009: 20mg 2010: 40mg: will start taper soon

01-12-2011, 12:16 PM	#25
NoRx4me Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 2,538	Re: Advice for new member? I have read dozens of stories of recovery without meds from people diagnosed with psychosis and schizophrenia. Check out: http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/ http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/re...psychosis-etc/ http://madnessradio.net/ There are links on those sites that may be useful too.

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