Adrenal fatigue recovery anyone?

[ray34iyf]

Originally Posted by stan

hi Ray

and why not my post !!!!

LOL!! Don't worry mate. (apparently I'm australian now.) I read your post!

[scotty]

[quote=ray34iyf;702475] It was to reinforce that these drugs mess with every function of the body. [quote]

Agreed

Thinking that simply quitting the drug will allow you to go back to previous functioning is missing the big picture. Your adrenals aren't the same. You liver functioning isn't the same... and on and on and on. Even doctors will admit that excess drug use can cause liver damage.

This is true for any "excess" use of a drug. We have no evidence of any permanent damage to any organ due to ssri use. Actually, quite the opposite. People report cholesterol normalizing after discontinuing the drug, people with "documented" adrenal insufficiency return to baseline function after removing the drug, and the liver metabolism returns to normal....without doing a thing.

Doing things like cutting out all body stressing foods (all unnatural stuff that isn't real food... aka processed), exercising lightly, and basically going about healing in a way that is beneficial for those suffering from compromised adrenals, will help.

This is what we say all the time. No need to do anything over the top.

[ray34iyf]

This is true for any "excess" use of a drug. We have no evidence of any permanent damage to any organ due to ssri use. Actually, quite the opposite. People report cholesterol normalizing after discontinuing the drug, people with "documented" adrenal insufficiency return to baseline function after removing the drug, and the liver metabolism returns to normal....without doing a thing.

We agree. I don't believe any of this is permanent. All I am saying is that there are things that you can do that will dramatically help you recover, and things that will dramatically delay your recovery. Unfortunately, I think people believe that you can just go about treating your body like garbage (hell, you can do WHATEVER you want.. none of my business.. just stating what I believe are facts) and expect everything to be fine because the brain will overcome the withdrawal... much more involved I believe.

This is what we say all the time. No need to do anything over the top.

I guess that depends what you mean when you say 'over the top'. Taking prescription meds for years on end would definitely be in that 'over the top' category. You may have to be proactive in your healing to counteract the detrimental effects that have occurred.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by ray34iyf

I guess that depends what you mean when you say 'over the top'. Taking prescription meds for years on end would definitely be in that 'over the top' category. You may have to be proactive in your healing to counteract the detrimental effects that have occurred.

Taking thousands of dollars in supplements, using "foot pads" to detox the liver, saunas, liver detoxes, indian steam boxes...yes, we've seen it all and the bottom line is always time.

A good balanced diet is always best, but one can eat an amazingly healthy diet, and withdrawal will still take time.

[ray34iyf]

Originally Posted by scotty

Taking thousands of dollars in supplements, using "foot pads" to detox the liver, saunas, liver detoxes, indian steam boxes...yes, we've seen it all and the bottom line is always time.

A good balanced diet is always best, but one can eat an amazingly healthy diet, and withdrawal will still take time.

You are right. It comes down to time. BUT, someone who is eating a diet with real foods, exercising mildly, meditating, doing healthful things like saunas, detoxes, etc.. WILL be in better shape to heal MORE quickly.. I think what you are referring is someone who looks for a magic bullet. You're not going to be able to get very far by doing a few saunas or detoxes or whatever on their own. BUT together, if you can make these things into a lifestyle change, you'll being doing yourself so much good. Trying something is great. Trying something and then subsequently writing it off because it didn't miraculously heal you right away is unfortunate, and all too common.

[ray34iyf]

And I apologize for the back and forth tit for tat that's been going on. I just believe it's way too important NOT to write everything off that can help JUST because there is a lot of quackery out there.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by ray34iyf

And I apologize for the back and forth tit for tat that's been going on. I just believe it's way too important NOT to write everything off that can help JUST because there is a lot of quackery out there.

The reason I'm so adamant on that quackery is that we see it all the time and newbies are so desperate for help that they will try anything.

They don't see the "good lifestyle changes" as being a good overall health thing ..they will swallow anything that they hear may help, they will believe that they are going to die from organ failure based on quackery, and they will associate every symptom with every fatal disease out there.

This is why I will point out the lack of a magic bullet to help withdrawal.

[TryingtoGetWell]

Originally Posted by Dymples83

Is anyone else here recovering or are familiar with Adrenal Fatigue? I'm just getting these attacks of adrenaline coming on even in my sleep where my heart rate seems to sky rocket as if I'm running a marathon or something. I've only had this happen a couple of times in the past 2 weeks or so. Can someone tell me if this is normal for AF recovery or do u think it's amplified by my withdrawal? I haven't had my Aropax altered since last my last stated (in signature) drop. After doing some research, hubby was saying that it was completely normal as my adrenal glands are in recovery, plus i'm in WD which wouldn't be helping. Thoughts Anyone? My mind is just spinning from trying to figure everything out rather then relaxing. I hope I'm not sounding too repetitive in my posts of late. I'm just having a really hard time.

I've been reading on this thread intermittently and refrained from posting because it seemed far easier to just keep hitting my head against the wall LOL.

My concern is that the OP's questions may not have been addressed properly in regard to her specific case. She is still tapering and any detox treatments could have disastrous effects while she is still on the med.

More importantly, her symptoms are NOT that of adrenal fatigue, though very likely (as she suggested) signs of adrenals starting to function more normally as she takes less of a med that indeed does interfere with many endocrine functions. There are numerous threads about that in the archives here; it is not news to this group that these meds do this and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Her symptoms are very common to many of us in w/d and could be from many endocrine functions going into action - too strongly to be pleasant - as a result of lowering or going off the meds causing less suppression of the endocrine hormones.

I'm a strong believer in (some) natural remedies when properly used. They usually aren't, and the flakiness is getting over the top in "natural medicine." I've been seeing that in horror for many, many years, and it just discredits legitimate knowledge and options.

Anything that would stimulate adrenal function when experiencing the symptoms Dymples is would just cause further unpleasantness, and worse, probably cause her adrenal function to decrease in response because it sounds like it sometimes may already in overdrive (though not all the time), which happens to so many of us when recovering.

But I also want to suggest that the fluctuating and often dramatically different symptoms that can occur in rapid succession during recovery from these meds can be a sign of the body healing on its own and restoring balance, probably involves the entire endocrine system (not just adrenals), and what might briefly relieve one symptom could worsen another. The body is in a state of flux, and while it is, any attempts to heal one part of the picture are be like shooting at rapidly moving changing targets. Odds are you'll shoot the wrong thing.

Dymples, I've had diagnoses from MDs of adrenal insufficiency and I've also been through numerous med w/d's. The symptoms you describe do not sound like any adrenal recovery I may have had independently of w/d (and I had to discontinue glandulars long ago because they made me sick - literally). But they do sound like symptoms I had in w/d, and many other people have had them too, though certainly not everyone gets any given symptom.

These meds seem to affect the entire endocrine system, and not just adrenals but thyroid etc. may go through a "roller coaster" for a while until the body is back in balance. For me this seemed to indicate sometimes too much of one, too little of another - but just a while later a different balance. My integrative medicine doctor couldn't find any way to address a state of flux like this, not could I. It's very different than a chronic medical problem (not w/d) that the body is not healing from, for which in many cases there are natural remedies that are far less toxic (and far fewer side effects if any) than most medications, and at least as effective. The situation with endocrine system in flux in w/d is a different matter, and improves on its own in time.

I'm a strong believer in natural modalities when possible. I cannot tell you what a godsend some have been for me. But specific medical disorders that require treatment are very different from w/d, and even treating medical concerns with natural methods can be a whole other ballgame for many of us when our bodies are sensitized during and following w/d (and while tapering is still on medication that shouldn't leave the body too quickly, which would defeat the tapering process).

[TryingtoGetWell]

Originally Posted by ray34iyf

You are right. It comes down to time. BUT, someone who is eating a diet with real foods, exercising mildly, meditating, doing healthful things like saunas, detoxes, etc.. WILL be in better shape to heal MORE quickly.. I think what you are referring is someone who looks for a magic bullet. You're not going to be able to get very far by doing a few saunas or detoxes or whatever on their own. BUT together, if you can make these things into a lifestyle change, you'll being doing yourself so much good. Trying something is great. Trying something and then subsequently writing it off because it didn't miraculously heal you right away is unfortunate, and all too common.

Ray, I'm truly glad you're an exception, but detoxes and saunas have made most people here worse, especially when still tapering as Dymples is (brings about a too-rapid w/d; detoxes and saunas simply can't differentiate between toxins!). They also have caused setbacks for most people who tried them too soon in recovery - there are numerous instances of this in the archives here - possibly because their systems may not have been as sturdy as yours seems to be. My theory is that the body is using its resources to recover and not able to handle a rapid siege of toxins, or maybe too sensitive for other things that occur in detoxing.

After I went off benzos, I was too ill to take care of myself on even some minimal levels, and a friend who I depended on for food etc. used the same detox treatment on me that had helped him recover from a lifetime of alcohol and illegal drug abuse. What helped him was disastrous for me. I ended up in the hospital and had to be put back on meds, and my health has never fully recovered.

There is more I could say, but I don't think I can handle writing about it, at least not at this time. Just that every case needs to be assessed and treated individually and very carefully, both physically and emotionally. When generalities are made, some people die from the very things that helped others, and it's dismissed as the original condition. And the grief doesn't go away even after decades.

[TryingtoGetWell]

Mods, if what I wrote in my last post is too strong for this board, please feel free to delete it. I don't know. I know what happened, and it doesn't apply to everyone, but it's very real for those who are in fragile condition physically or mentally.

Do with it what you will.

[ray34iyf]

It's all good!! Let's make this educational and use the back and forth for people's benefit. I am going to more thoroughly read what you wrote and hit you back with a response.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by scotty

When the only one touting the efficacy of the tests are the ones who sell the test, a red flag should go up.
What you're describing is classic withdrawal. You can spend thousands on testing and supplements, but it's still withdrawal that will correct itself in time.

More importantly, her symptoms are NOT that of adrenal fatigue, though very likely (as she suggested) signs of adrenals starting to function more normally as she takes less of a med that indeed does interfere with many endocrine functions. There are numerous threads about that in the archives here; it is not news to this group that these meds do this and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

Exactly...which is what I stated early on in the quote above. It's got to be about having patience, weaning slowly, and not shocking the system with anything.

[ray34iyf]

Originally Posted by TryingtoGetWell

Ray, I'm truly glad you're an exception, but detoxes and saunas have made most people here worse, especially when still tapering as Dymples is (brings about a too-rapid w/d; detoxes and saunas simply can't differentiate between toxins!).

Detoxing and flushing and all that should definitely NOT be done until someone is OFF of the meds, as like you said, the meds will get flushed out with the rest of the toxins and put a person into withdrawal.

They also have caused setbacks for most people who tried them too soon in recovery - there are numerous instances of this in the archives here - possibly because their systems may not have been as sturdy as yours seems to be. My theory is that the body is using its resources to recover and not able to handle a rapid siege of toxins, or maybe too sensitive for other things that occur in detoxing.

Research research research. Anyone who is contemplating going the detox route and overhauling their lifestyle needs to read a good book on the subject and do their reading. It is very possible to feel lousy from a detox if the toxins are not ushered out of the colon and are allowed to be reabsorbed into the bloodstream. This could make someone feel very ill. Lots of water. Enemas. Natural laxatives like prunes. Look into it and consider it... and make the call if you feel it is right for your situation. I was hesitant. But I am thankful to say it has been a huge part of recovery for me so far and my life will never be the same.

After I went off benzos, I was too ill to take care of myself on even some minimal levels, and a friend who I depended on for food etc. used the same detox treatment on me that had helped him recover from a lifetime of alcohol and illegal drug abuse. What helped him was disastrous for me. I ended up in the hospital and had to be put back on meds, and my health has never fully recovered.

I agree with this. It's all very individual. If someone is in a very fragile state with the physical health, then going about changes in a very gradual way is how things should be approached. Take it one step at a time.

There is more I could say, but I don't think I can handle writing about it, at least not at this time. Just that every case needs to be assessed and treated individually and very carefully, both physically and emotionally. When generalities are made, some people die from the very things that helped others, and it's dismissed as the original condition. And the grief doesn't go away even after decades.

Yep. Generalities suck. You need to be careful but you also need to be proactive. Giving up our control is what got us here in the first place.

[rbds22]

Who's gonna have the last word????

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by TryingtoGetWell

Mods, if what I wrote in my last post is too strong for this board, please feel free to delete it. I don't know. I know what happened, and it doesn't apply to everyone, but it's very real for those who are in fragile condition physically or mentally.

Do with it what you will.

You're fine

[ray34iyf]

Originally Posted by rbds22

Who's gonna have the last word????

I lol'ed

[rangerNY]

Is it just me, or are "toxin" and "detox" the two most overused and misused words in health and fitness?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by rangerNY

Is it just me, or are "toxin" and "detox" the two most overused and misused words in health and fitness?

Ain't marketing great!

[rangerNY]

It's an easy formula:

1. Make your assertion in simple terms so people will understand.

2. Make your assertion sound like common sense.

3. Repeat it as many times as it takes for your assertion to become "fact".

[TryingtoGetWell]

Originally Posted by rangerNY

Is it just me, or are "toxin" and "detox" the two most overused and misused words in health and fitness?

I think they're a close second (and third) to "serotonin deficiency."

Originally Posted by rangerNY

It's an easy formula:

1. Make your assertion in simple terms so people will understand.

2. Make your assertion sound like common sense.

3. Repeat it as many times as it takes for your assertion to become "fact".

See above.

[kathleen2]

But hey, those foot pads are on clearance at my local Walgreens for $2.99

[scotty]

So, to summarize this very long thread...

Dymples83, what you're experiencing is withdrawal, plain and simple. It will improve as your dose goes down. Continue to take it very slow and you'll be fine. These things that crop up are, sadly, normal in withdrawal.

[Songbird]

Hi Dymples, no I don't think it is adrenal fatigue. The 'brakes' are coming off your nervous system as your dose gets lower. The adrenaline rushes are a sign of the sympathetic nervous system revving up.

What you need is to calm your nervous system as much as possible. Avoid all alcohol, caffeine, strenuous exercise and anything scary such as scary movies, TV, books, etc. (Oh yeah, and don't go on the hydroslide like I did!). Gentle exercise such as walking is good. Relaxation exercises daily can help enormously. I've found magnesium helpful for palpitations and pounding heartbeat.

[Dymples83]

Just for the record, I hadn't changed anything before this "crash." I was still at the same dose. I haven't been using any detox plans, have no idea what a detox foot pad is, I have never touched anything alcoholic in my life (not kidding, I find it repulsive and smelly), I completely eliminated any stimulants such as tea/coffee etc (even decaffe) I haven't not been able to exercise hardly at all due to extreme exhaustion and when I do I get much much worse. I haven't been able to stabilise after a dose change at all in the last 9 months no matter how long in between.

Before my "crash" I was able to function, go shopping, loved to drive, I was able to effectively use CBT to talk my way out of any major attacks, at the moment I have buckley's in doing so. I'm now completely housebound and mostly bed ridden, I have no motivation what-so-ever. At first we thought that it was just the withdrawal effects so my doses were lowered however I have never been able to stablise no matter how long / short I wait between drops. Supplements have helped, I've been taking Vitamin B complex (same as always) magnesium complex and Vit C and I've seen slight improvements.

Some1 stated that I didn't have many of the supposed Adrenal Fatigue symptoms, If you'd read some of my previous posts on other threads you'd notice that I have already stated that what I'm going through (and have been for the past 9mths) has been the vast majority of known Adrenal Fatigue symptoms. I also apologise for not reading every single thread on this board as to where other similar posts have been made however I don't have the concentration span atm to read them all. This post alone has been typed over a period of a couple of hours. In fact I had to get my hubby to read all your replies as my brain isn't functioning enough to read throughly ( I was only able to skim read)

I was actually quite offended by some the these replys. How can you deny AF when there have been hundreds of people diagnosed with it and have made full recoveries using the right supplements and dietry changes? Not all these people are on AD or other prescribed meds so they couldn't be going through withdrawal. Also the book which is helping me get through this rough patch is written by a fully trained/qualified and experienced medical doctor so it's not just a naturopathic (if that's even a word sorry) opinion.

The thing is, my situation is being amplified by the withdrawal, I don't doubt this at all. It's a catch 22 really as the withdrawal is being amplified by my Adrenal Fatigue.

Anyways I think I've said all that I wanted to say. I am half expecting a lot of back lash from this post but I'm at the point where I don't even care anymore.

Originally Posted by ray34iyf

LOL!! Don't worry mate. (apparently I'm australian now.) I read your post!

Btw Ray, what's wrong with being Australian :P We're awesome

[TryingtoGetWell]

Originally Posted by Dymples83

J
Some1 stated that I didn't have many of the supposed Adrenal Fatigue symptoms, If you'd read some of my previous posts on other threads you'd notice that I have already stated that what I'm going through (and have been for the past 9mths) has been the vast majority of known Adrenal Fatigue symptoms.

Hi, Dymples,

I'm concerned there may have been some misunderstandings in this thread when it unfortunately strayed from your original question.

If you're referring to my post, please know that I do take adrenal fatigue seriously. In fact I was diagnosed with it before I even went off the paxil, and my doctor feels it's still an issue with me. Having learned from this group more about what happens to the body from these meds and from w/d, I now think it may be more a matter of the entire endocrine system being in flux (that includes the adrenals and also other glands), and my doctor agrees that may account for some of what occurs in w/d and has affected my health also.

I certainly don't know all your history, though if I'm not confused I think I recall that you unfortunately also had an illness during your w/d. I would never presume to diagnose you even if I were familiar with your medical history - that would be out of line! I was just concerned that if you are recovering from such problems, that some of the things Ray suggested could have a negative impact on your recovery and also very likely increase the adrenaline and heart racing symptoms that were the subject of your thread, and which many of us are familiar with because they occur quite often in w/d.

I had that quite strongly when in acute w/d, and still get it occasionally, generally after even slight physical activity, and especially sometimes when waking, a phenomenon someone here once attributed to the body's exaggerated response in w/d to deep sleep (and I sleep very deeply).

Fortunately it's not a cause for concern, but it's very unpleasant.

I'm sure Ray was trying to be helpful by posting his suggestions, but some of us were very concerned that they would be detrimental in your particular situation. (Ray is completely off the meds and also is capable of significant exercise and other detox methods he feels are helping his recovery, but which could be harmful in your case, I feel). I was concerned that these might cause problems for you and for anyone else who is in a weakened condition and still tapering who might read his suggestions. Among other things, some of the things he recommends could cause your body to detox (eliminate) the paxil, thereby causing your slow wean to go faster than is advisable. He later acknowledged here that that would not be advisable when still weaning off the med.

I hope that clarifies things. We understand you didn't change anything! It was the changes recommended by one person that concerned the rest of us, given that your circumstances are very different than his. (Mine are too!)