Terrrible Week

[fishy]

I just don't get it. I have a week where I feel like I am really improving and getting better, then a week like this past week...I was sick and anxious all week. My spirit was down and I just feel like going to my Dr. and asking for any and all drugs he can give me to make the anxiety and depression go away. It is quite frustrating. I understand there are ups and downs while tapering, but mine is probably due to my recent and many med chages. I really thought I had stabilized on the Lexapro, but maybe not...or maybe the 7 months on klonopin has rendered me tolerant. Either way, I am using every CBT technique I have learned, but the constant anxiety has a way of breaking a person down. By the end of the day, I am almost in tears from the frustration.

As dumb as this sounds, I am going to ask my Dr. to start my slow taper off of Klonopin this week. If things get worse, well, think of the exposure I'll be getting...plus I can always re-instate.

Any thoughts?

[rain]

IMO I wouldn't start a benzo taper until you're off the Lexapro. Sounds like much of the anxiety could be from all the switching you've done recently. I think you are still trying to stabilize, which is resulting in the anxiety/depression.

[hockeyxshawn]

I am going through the same exact thing right now. One week I feel like I am improving, then the next week I am back down in the dumps. The only thing that keeps me going is that it seems like my down times are getting shorter in duration. Its definitely a frustrating feeling because sometimes I feel like I need meds to make myself feel better, but at the same time it was probably the meds that got me here in the first place.

I hope you feel better, and that your tapering process goes OK. No one deserves to feel like this. I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.

Hang in there!

[brunyan]

hang in there man. the ride aint over. but youll make it.

[warbird]

Fishy-

My bet is you're med changes are a big factor to your current condition. I too have good days in a row followed by challenging ones. It's kind of sad that you're taking two different "wonder drugs" yet you're still feeling the way you are. I'm still taking a good size dose of Paxil yet feel the way I do.

Kolonipin causes depression for many people. I had it and only used it occasionally. Often times it would make me depressed and I never get depressed. It also can cause rebound symptoms and tolerence happens quickly for some.

There's no easy answers for you. Personally, my psychiatrist HATES benzo's of any sort. He weaned me off them due to his strong concerns that they were causing a lot of my issues. I'd agree that if you are in overall decent shape, are functional, that you should wean off the K. Once you're off it and have stabilized, you can try to get off the Lexipro.

[fishy]

Warbird:
THAT is why I consider you one of my mentors here. Great answer. I too rarely get depressed (although I get a sort of frustration on days when I am anxious all day that makes me feel like crying...I don't know if that is depression or not) and am usually one of the happiest people you'd ever meet.

I'm willing to bet it's the klonopin...especially because I have also been experiencing headaches that accompany the "bad episodes"...it stinks of Benzo addiction.

So notice my siggy...I've tapered before and know I can go down to 1.0 mg in steps of 0.25 mg with a 2-3 week stabilization. After the 1.0 mg, I've got to slow it way down or things get uncomfortable.

But that's the plan...and ya wanna hear something wierd? I went to my son's T-Ball practice, was active in coaching and running drills with the kids today, and feel a lot better! I think it was in part the exercise, but mostly getting my mind off my anxiety. Obsessing over how I feel is one of my worst triggers. I need to learn to feel but not to constantly take inventory of how I feel.

Anywho...A bad week that may end up on a better note. And the start of my Klonopin taper. Stay tuned, folks...

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by rain

IMO I wouldn't start a benzo taper until you're off the Lexapro. Sounds like much of the anxiety could be from all the switching you've done recently. I think you are still trying to stabilize, which is resulting in the anxiety/depression.

I agree 100%. Fishy, when you say "sick all week" did you have a bug, or something?

[fishy]

Laurie:
No, "sick" in this sense means "high anxiety, nausea, headache, some IBS" all anxiety symptoms. I could be on a "roller-coaster" from all the switching where I go from good for a week or two, then bad for a week, etc...but regardless, I am adamant about getting off the benzo BEFORE the SSRI. It took me 10 years to reach tolerance on Paxil. It takes most people about a month on Benzos. IMO Benzos were meant to be taken PRN when things get really bad....they are not meant as a long-term treatment which is firmly established in all the literature I have read on treatment of panic and anxiety disorders.

After 7 months on the klonopin, I think it is time for it to go...regardless of what else may be happening with my SSRIs. I am addicted to it and am pretty sure I have reached tolerance on the current dosage. So what is the point in taking it? I will experience some rebound anxiety and will surely be more uncomfortable while tapering, but If I'm having bad weeks anyway...

Finally, I think once my mind adjusts to not having the Benzo...which will probably take months... I might be better at handling anxiety since it will be ME handling the anxiety rather than the drug helping me.

I know you are only concerned with me Laurie, because I am one of the coolest cats on the forum, but I think this is the right move for me. Don't cry for me Argentina...the truth is I never left you.

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by fishy

I know you are only concerned with me Laurie, because I am one of the coolest cats on the forum, but I think this is the right move for me. Don't cry for me Argentina...the truth is I never left you.

LOL!!! Yes, you're a cool dude!

Look, we all do what we believe is best. When I was tapering, my dad got ill and passed 34 days later. Through his lung cancer diagnosis, to his passing, I was advised to stop tapering during that time. But, I was adamant about continuing and that's exactly what I did.

If things get too rough, you go back up and do the SSRI first. It's all trial and error and we all make our own way. I do ask though, that you hold on until you're a little more stable with the Lexapro. Just wait a few more weeks, if you can

[fishy]

For you, I'll stay at the 1.25mg on the Klonopin for another month and we'll see what happens. This is because I respect you and your vast knowledge in these matters. I wouldn't do that for anyone else, especially evil scotty Laurie! If the roller-coaster continues or gets worse (I know "what-ifs" are a no no) my psy will prob want to put me up to 20 mg of the Lexapro (I know the guy pretty well now). I'm wondering whether riding the roller coaster is worse than the extra weaning that would be involved in going up to 20 mg. In addition, there is no guarantee 20mg will ensure stability. I would like opinion on this scenerio.

BTW Laurie, I lost my mother to lung cancer 4 years ago. She suffered as I'm sure your father did. When I think I am having a bad day, I think of what my mother went through. It makes me sad, but puts things in perspective. People can endure a LOT of pain.

[LCrawford67]

Let's not think about the going up right now, k? Yep, I know that's easier said than done, but let's focus on the present path for the next few weeks.

Fortunately, my dad didn't suffer too much. As I said, it was very quick, just 34 days, and I'm very thankful for that. My mother had stomach cancer and suffered for over a year, back in 1983. Yes, people can endure a LOT of pain.

Anyway....It can be a roller coaster and we tend to focus on the downs, especially when we've had a sh*t week. But, I wouldn't worry about going up in dose, or anything else, right at this moment. As I said, just stay the course for a few more weeks and we'll cross each bridge, as we come to it.

[warbird]

OMG Fishy!

Don't go up in dose! That's the last thing you need to do. Increasing the dose of the pill is just going to extend your weaning if/when you come off it.

People have different views of what you should wean off first. I will only use my experience and say that I'm glad to be off the benzo's. They never really helped either.

One of the big things I cling too is knowing I've recovered from an anxiety bout a few times in my past w/out drugs. I so regret ever trying Paxil for what was just stress issues. I'm very aware that my core anxiety will still be there after I'm off and I'm good with it.

[fishy]

Laurie:
I changed my mind. I gotta do what is best for me and the use of Benzos for long-term treatment of panic and anxiety disorders is WRONG. I've been taking Klonopin 3Xday for 7 months. I am now waking at 3 am with anxiety and I am 99% sure it is the klonopin. I intend to suffer through a withdrawal schedule that I have already started and then will let my mind heal itself off the drug. It's a long haul, but I'm in it for the long term. I got a 6 yr old son and a 7 yr old daughter. Even if i takes 5 years...my son would only be 11...

I think a psychiatrist that prescribes benzos this way is ignorant but I chose to take them. So now I will find a new psychiatrist and go from here.

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by fishy

Laurie:
I changed my mind. I gotta do what is best for me and the use of Benzos for long-term treatment of panic and anxiety disorders is WRONG. I've been taking Klonopin 3Xday for 7 months. I am now waking at 3 am with anxiety and I am 99% sure it is the klonopin. I intend to suffer through a withdrawal schedule that I have already started and then will let my mind heal itself off the drug. It's a long haul, but I'm in it for the long term. I got a 6 yr old son and a 7 yr old daughter. Even if i takes 5 years...my son would only be 11...

I think a psychiatrist that prescribes benzos this way is ignorant but I chose to take them. So now I will find a new psychiatrist and go from here.

You absolutely gotta do what's best for you, Fishy I completely understand! You don't need to explain yourself to me at all. No one knows you, better than you and you're very logical and level headed, so I truly believe you know what you need to do.

[fishy]

But if I ****-up will you be there to tell me everything is going to be o.k.?

[LCrawford67]

Originally Posted by fishy

But if I ****-up will you be there to tell me everything is going to be o.k.?

You know it! In fact, I'll tell you right now - everything will be ok. Even IF there's a misstep, it's not anything than can't be undone. Always remember that.

[texgirl]

Originally Posted by fishy

I intend to suffer through a withdrawal schedule that I have already started and then will let my mind heal itself off the drug. It's a long haul, but I'm in it for the long term.

Fishy, how do you plan to taper below 1.0mg? I tapered off .75mg Klonopin by having it componded. It took me 8 months, which was fast but doable. There's no need to suffer! You may even be plesantly surprised, as I was, that you feel better the lower in dose you go.

[vestabula]

I decided to wean off Valium after being off Lexapro for three months. Just my experience but it has been a nightmare. I developed a new host of symptoms that are even more than disturbing. My brain had not recovered from the SSRI yet. Please be careful...reinstating is not as easy as it sounds. I bumped back up to 4mgs when I got shingles on my eye/face (yes, from benzo w/d) and it was more difficult to wean back down. If it were me, I would wait...JMHO.

Donna

[fishy]

Well, I knew it.

My psychiatrist wants me to double my lexapro to 20 mg/day and double my benzo to 1 mg 3Xday . I was so depressed I almost lost it. I argued for an hour with the guy, but he had a counter argument for everything I said. His main argument was one I heard here...I really have not been stable for more than a month. Anxiety keeps coming up, so he wants me stable for 3-6 months before weaning off the benzo (which he promised we would do if/when I get stable).

I am getting a second opinion from another psychiatrist ASAP...I have already put in the call - am waiting for an appointment. In the meantime, my anxiety is through the roof and I may increase my dosages as recommended. If the second opinion tells me he is right...nothing lost....if the second opinion says he is wrong, I start weaning.

Texgirl: I was going to switch to valium for the lower dosages...looks like that is not going to happen.

To my CBT friends...I have not forsaken CBT...this "floating" anxiety is something that I cannot seem to shake. I still will do my homework and face my fear.

However, today was a rotten setback for sure.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by fishy

Well, I knew it.

My psychiatrist wants me to double my lexapro to 20 mg/day and double my benzo to 1 mg 3Xday .

I'll just throw this out there...why would you double the dose of a drug that has only increased your anxiety to the point where you have to more than double your dose of benzo?

Keep in perspective that these drug dosage changes are all the result of one week's symptoms, and may be the case of "your drug may be your problem".

[JessG]

IMO, I think it is all still Paxil WD and a bit of Prozac WD. I really wish you would have gone back to Paxil after the Prozac. You only gave the Paxil two weeks and it can take up to 8 weeks to start to feel better after a switch back. This is why most switches fail because the new drug just doesn't cover up the WD from the old drug. You will probably just get a similar answer from the new Psychiatrist because they are all essentially clueless when it comes to these drugs. Their answers are always the same: switch to another drug, add this drug, raise your dose, rinse and repeat. I can't believe he wants to DOUBLE both the Lexapro AND the benzo. He obviously has no clue. I really feel for you, I know it sucks. If it were me I would probably just stay on the benzo and go back to the Paxil but that would mean yet another change. I really wish I had some better advice for you. Hang in there.

[fishy]

Yeah, thus the second opinion. It is true that this has been the result of one bad week but like I said, my psychiatrist had a comeback for everything:

"That would be understandable if you were tapering off a drug, to have a bad week, but you were not tapering. You were supposed to be stable but apparently have not reach a stable, condition where you are relatively anxiety free". He didn't think with the level of anxiety I was experiencing ON the Klonopin, I would be able to taper off of it successfully - he said I would crash miserably.

Jess: The paxil had "pooped" out on me. You can see I tried many different dosages with fairly long stabilizations...Paxil is not a viable option for me anymore. For whatever reason, it doesn't "do it" for me like it used to.

We'll see what the other psychiatrist says. I'm just fed up with it.

[scotty]

You're in a tough spot of tolerance to ssri's and benzos, leaving you in withdrawal even while taking the drugs, especially with the benzo. I'm not sure you're going to like what any psychiatrist has to offer...because all they have to offer is higher doses, or different drugs.
It's a tough spot to be in.

[palm]

Fishy,

Not only do psychiatrists only have higher doses and different drugs to offer, what if you don't get stable? Then what?

In other words, you could be chasing an elusive target when as Scotty says, the drug is really your problem.

I know you're in a tough position but I think you need to do what you feel is best and not what the psychiatrist thinks. If you feel that staying on the meds and raising the dose is best for you, that is one thing. But I am sensing you're doing it because psychiatrist 1 says to and if psychiatrist 2 says so also, you will do it.

Palm

[Lucy]

Originally Posted by scotty

I'll just throw this out there...why would you double the dose of a drug that has only increased your anxiety to the point where you have to more than double your dose of benzo?

And why do doctors always want to double or halve doses as if no other options exist? Because it's easy to figure out? No complicated fractions?