Bats out of the paroxetine belfry

[chiropteran]

Thanks GrandmaD, you're awesome

I'm holding for another month or two for a few reasons really.

Firstly, winter is historically the worst time for my depression, so if my mood is going to really crash, this is the time of year it will most likely happen, with or without the pills, thanks to poop-out.

Secondly, I'd like things to be a little bit more stable with life in general - for fiancee to have a new job, for a few work issues to be over with for me, to know that we won't need to move imminently, for 'non-friend' drama to be over with. I'm not waiting for perfection, or for the 'perfect time', because I'd probably be waiting forever! I just want to not feel like I'm walking on eggshells or waiting for an anvil to drop on me a la Acme.

Thirdly, I promised the fiancee I'd wait a little longer, because of Firstly

I am nothing if not a man of my word!

[Kay2020]

I really do not like drama and especially with WDs! There were times where I actually put 6 months between drops, and then in the second attempt 3 months between drops. Trying the large drops put so much strain on us, it was a nice break for those months.

[chiropteran]

Thanks Kay - I hate drama with a passion! Unfortunately there has been a lot of it in our lives for the last few years. I guess the good thing I can take from this is - if I can handle that much drama while I'm going through tapering as well, then I can probably handle anything!

Things are starting to look up a bit since last post - all of your good thoughts worked, cos my fiancee started her new job today. It's a 3-month contract for now, but there's a hope they will extend it or make it permanent, and she didn't end up having to take a pay drop, which is an enormous relief for the time being. At least financially, we both feel like an enormous weight has lifted off our shoulders. We will probably still look at moving to a cheaper place eventually, but now we can take our time and find something that really suits us, instead of having to just settle for somewhere because it's cheaper and takes cats.

In terms of symptoms, the intense nausea I had for about 3 weeks has abated a bit and I'm now eating semi-normally most of the time, no longer bland carbs. I still have some queasy times, and a little bit of stomach pain, but nothing like as bad as it has been. The usual gastrointestinal distress is still there in those other delightful ways though, incredible wind and bloating and the usual IBS-like symptoms.

Mentally and emotionally I'm doing fine, the few blips of intense sadness over the last few weeks also seem to have abated. Sleeping remains amazingly good, probably the best result of this last drop. I go to bed tired, I fall asleep in a reasonable time, I sleep until the morning and I can get up without feeling like I'm going to die from tiredness. I'll still nap during the day in the weekends, but I don't feel like I'm dragging my reluctant lead-weighted carcass from task to task like I used to.

Five and a half weeks since the drop to 20mgs, still planning to sit here for the winter at this point, so at least another 8 weeks.

[Kay2020]

chiropteran,

That is so true, handling all kinds of drama while in withdrawal does mean you can handle anything!

That is great news on the financial side. I think that during this time it is all about survival and self care.

I think my cats are such a help to me right now I would also take my time to make sure they could come with me also. To me they are a blessing. Also my Husband loves them as much as I do!

[Kay2020]

I am getting worried about you! I hope all is well.

[chiropteran]

Hi Kay! Hi everyone

Phew, it's been a while. As I was taking a break fom tapering over the winter, I haven't been around here much at all. I did miss you all, but I was doing very well on my 20mgs and survived the 'bad months' with pretty much no issues. I feel pretty triumphant about this - as a self (and doc) proclaimed 'can't go below 40mgs EVER' person, to get here and get through a winter is nothing short of joyous.
I got some new jeweller's scales, so will be starting the road on downwards from 20mgs from the 1st of September. I'm going to try out 10% drops every 4 weeks at first to see how I go - with an eye to going back to 6-8 weeks in between if I don't feel right.
I feel refreshed and strong and ready for this next stage - hullo again everyone! Hope you're all doing great

[aberdeen]

Welcome back! I admire you're determination. You've come a long way! I'm about to embark on the scales and weighing method soon. I've done all I can with a pill splitter I think. Congrats on feeling good at 20mg, that's awesome!

[lotusflower]

Hi Chiro,

This is really strange.....just yesterday, you came to mind and I had planned to find your journal to ask about how you are doing! And today, here you are....great to have you back, joannexo

[oyang]

Hi, I have just been reading your journal. Way to go!!! From 80 mg to 20 mg, and 25 years on medication. And feeling good at 20 mg. You have all of my respects. How inspirational! This really puts things into perspective. Thank you so much for sharing!

[chiropteran]

Hey everyone, what great messages to come back to! Really appreciate all your kind words, Aberdeen, Joanne and Oyang (nice to 'meetcha'

It's a pretty weird feeling to have people say reading this journal has been inspirational for them, because it seems like yesterday I was trawling through every single piece of information on this site, reading people's stories and relating and taking on board the bits and pieces that I needed to start to think 'maybe I CAN do this too...'. I can't believe it's actually been almost three years since I first came here and started lurking.

If anyone else is thinking aout doing pill-cutting and weighing and isn't exactly sure how to go about it, I sat down last night with the new scale and my spreadsheet and worked out exactly how much an average pill weighs, extrapolated from that exactly how much 1mg of 'active ingredient + filler' weighs, and then exactly what weights I need to cut to to drop 10% each time. The way I do it is:

1: Weigh 20-50 pills (however many you have handy)
2: Record their individual weights in an Excel sheet.
3: Average those weights, ie sum them all up and then divide by the number of pills (there is also an 'average' function in Excel for those of you who are savvy). So in my case, all the weights of 50 pills summed up, then divided by 50.
4: The weight you have now is the average weight of a single pill of paroxetine (in my case 20mgs).
5: Divide this average weight by 20 (or whatever mg your pill is)
6: This new tiny weight is the average weight of 1mg of active ingredient + pill filler.
7: Now put your 'starting' mg dosage (in my case 20mg) in a cell, and in the next cell down subtract 10% from this dosage. Repeat as far down as you want to go. (For those that aren't sure how to do this, dosage divided by ten, then minus the number you get from the original dosage. Or use an online percentage calculator to work it out if you're not confident with Excel and maths.)
8: In the cell next to your first 10% dosage drop, multiply the 1mg weight by that new dosage.
8: Voila, you know what your new dose should weigh!
9: Keep on going down all the dosage drops working out what the weights are (you will need to divide the 1mg weight by 100 to get really, really accurate with the 0.02s etc, and then add them back on to your 'round numbers'). Add these to the cells next to the dosages.
10: Watch everything get smaller and smaller...I added dates to mine as well. Feel simultaenously elated and a bit shocked at how much longer you still have to go!
11: Pick yourself up and tell yourself 'It doesn't matter how long it takes or how slow this is, ONE GLORIOUS DAY I will be free of this stuff. If this guy who was on 80mgs, and has had 25 years on A/Ds, can do this? I can do this too. I just gotta do it RIGHT.

[Songbird]

I created a spreadsheet to do this, it's in the 'technical information' sticky.

http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/...51&postcount=9

[GrandmaD]

Welcome back! I too, was only thinking about you recently and wondering if you would ever be back! I wish you all the success for your new taper!

[chiropteran]

Ah, thanks Ms Songbird, I knew it was somewhere, just couldn't remember where - cheers for reminding people.
Hey GrandmaD, nice to see you! I think about you often and send you good thoughts across the ditch - look at you down to 6.4, that's just amazing Have caught up with a little bit of your shiny new journal but will keep reading on... how are you doing with those nasty pressure heads?

[GrandmaD]

I have still been getting the presure heads and not a happy vegemite, to say the least! I kept thinking about how you said you had them for 12 months and hoped they might go away. It seems it is one head issue or another - take your pick - the roulette game for today!

Last many days has been a sore head, not outright headache, but still incapacitating in that I also get real low, slow, heavy, no incentive and weak with it and it hurts to touch. Just before that was 3 days of headache - a migraine or tension, not sure.

So I was glad no tnesion head, but got the sore head, after 3 days glad no sore head but have a buzzing, vibrating head now! At least with the vibrating head I am more alert, more energy so should put my money on this one I guess!

Then comes the head pressure head - similar to sore heads, no energy, etc.

I get so sick and tired and fed up, it is relentless, never ending ... and wonder how I can keep going.

Therefore, i deided to do an even slower taper - 2.5% and so far the best thing was week1 it was ok. Week 2 crap, not better than 5% taper. Have to keep going to see how it will pan out.

Thanks for the messages across the ocean, by the way!

[chiropteran]

Hey Ppers!

Aw Grandma, really sorry to hear you're still struggling with those nasty heads. I hope the 2.5% drops pan out for you and offer a little bit of relief - just keep reminding yourself that it's early days yet with those, so things might start to stabilise after a while, will keep fingers crossed for you.

So I made my first drop below 20mg on Saturday morning the 1st of September here, first day of spring and all that, seemed like a good place to start! Down 10% to 18mgs.

By Sunday night/Monday morning I was decidedly nauseous. I had forgotten just how much fun that feeling is (not). It seems that those gut serotonin receptors are always the first to react to a drop with me. As well as the nausea, vertigo and woolly head kicked in on Monday, and I spent Monday and Tuesday off work again, as none of these things are very compatible with nursing. The ginger root tablets I have helped a bit, as did a return to nothing but bland carbohydrate - plain baked potatoes always seem to be a good option when I'm nauseous, and then at least you feel like you've eaten something.
Back at work today, very slightly dizzy and shaky and the nausea is lurking in the background, but it IS background enough for me to cope. Had a bit of trouble dropping off to sleep last night, which hasn't happened for a while, but that could also be because my two days off involved sleeping in.
Will keep posting updates as things progress - I have hope that my usual 1-2 week bumpy period then smoothing out will still be the case on these doses.

[Brassmonkey]

Chiropteran--if the full 10% is hitting you so hard, why not try one of my slides? It's only been a few days so you could go back up to 19.5mg, which would be the first slide, for a week and then follow up by sliding to 19 for a week, 18.5 for a week and finally 18mg for a week and then hold there for an extra two weeks. It might be a bit rocky stabilizing out the four days you have done already but I think it will help over all.

Hope you feel better either way.

[chiropteran]

Hey Tom, thanks for popping in! Been watching your patented slide with interest, actually. Looks like our tapers are roughly same-rate at the moment!

I've been lucky enough so far that the more unpleasant effects seem to wear themselves out within the first week or two of a drop, at least since I got down below about 30mg, there's a definite pattern emerging.

This drop, I now feel very optimistic - the nausea and vertigo has pretty much resolved completely over the last day or so, and it's only been 6 days.
I managed a decent salad last night and even got myself back on the treadmill - a gentlish 20mins with 10mins of jogging and a few weights reps.
Moodwise I'm absolutely fine, and any sleep effects seem restricted to having a tiny bit more trouble dropping off, which is a nothing in the grand scheme of things, specially considering how it used to be.
I'll continue to watch the Tom Slide(tm), and I think if the effects start to hang around for longer as I get lower, or hit me harder in that first week, I'll definitely give it a go!

[chiropteran]

Heyo PPers!

Sooo, where are we... Day 10 on 18mgs.
Nausea has stayed away since that first wee blip. My energy levels are noticeably up - over the weekend I didn't even feel the need to have a little nap in the afternoon like I usually do, and although I 'slept in' (weekdays involve a 6:30 start) we're talking 8am not 10am.

Actually went out on Thursday AND Friday nights after work and wasn't shattered to pieces afterwards (note that both outings were pretty sedate, we're talking sushi, Physics Society talks and Beethoven string quartets rather than 2 pints of vodka and moshing in a punk pit).

But, this is a little victory for me - just having the energy and inclincation to do these things after a full day of work and not break myself in the process of trying to have a little bit more of a life.

Also, although my fiancee has a nasty bug with all her glands up, I feel fine.
It may be too early to count those viral chickens, but it IS unusual for me - usually I get it first, or within a day or two of her feeling a bit off, and about 10 times worse.

In short, the optimism continues. I'm a fraction giddy today, but otherwise nothing bad or potentially taper-related to report, even the usual bowel hideousness has settled.

Echolocate onwards!

[Songbird]

That's good to hear. I noticed that my energy and motivation increased significantly as my dose reduced.

[chiropteran]

Thanks Ms. Bird! It's pretty great.
Thought of you this morning when I walked to work and the tuis were up shouting their little lungs out: "MY KOWHAI TREE! MINE MINE MINE!" I love spring.

More than halfway to the next 10% drop now. I've been feeling so great that I think I'm going to try a 3-weeker (21 days).
Mentally and physically I continue to feel strong and alive.
I've even managed my treadmill + weights every day for 5 days now, and unlike the other times throughout taper when I've FORCED myself to do it because I know it helps, I'm actually looking forward to it and counting it as one of the good things about my day. Potential-taper-wave-future-lethargic-self, please READ THIS BIT and remember it.

[GrandmaD]

It's beaut to hear you are doing so well. You are starting from a good place, nice and strong physically and emotionally.

[chiropteran]

Heya GrandmaD, nice to see ya It's true I've been feeling pretty damn lucky lately, with the lack of any truly nasty effects.
Today wasn't such a great day, it turned out - first one I've had since before winter. Woke up with a very stiff neck and a doozy of a pressure head, also aching joints, ribs, and those weird swollen-feeling stiff hands in particular. A bit of good old nausea and dizziness to go with, as well as that 'full/bloated' feeling. Funnily enough, two things that always seem to happen when I get hit with this stuff also occurred; 'head bumps' - little painful fluid/pus-filled lumps on the back of my head under my hair crop up overnight, and (no polite way to put this) clay-pale poo.
I know there's a whole boatload of physical conditions that could be causing these symptoms, but they've never been pinned down to anything, and they have waxed and waned throughout taper, so the majority of my money's on withdrawal. I'm also aware that my pill weighing is not 100% exact, so I'm probably getting minute fluctuations in dosage; maybe I hit a slightly bigger one yesterday or something.
Went back to bed after a shower and just let myself nap with the window open, cool spring air is magic. Felt a little bit better by the afternoon, at least able to function. Pressure head and other symptoms still lurking but much less, so hopeful work won't be too unbearable tomorrow.
Fiancee is being awesome; she's in a good headspace right now and incredibly supportive, which makes a massive amount of difference.
Despite a bad day, I'm still a lucky, lucky man.

[chiropteran]

Well, turned out I didn't make it to work - woke on Monday morning with the beginnings of a full-blown migraine. Haven't had one that bad since well before winter. Stiff neck turned into a gigantic flickery coloured aura, obscured almost my entire visual field until I was blind except for a fraction on the right in both eyes. Lancing icepick through the top of the eye and out the back of the head pain not helped by painkillers. Slurring and losing words, nauseous, weak and dizzy. Went back to bed and slept for about 5 hours in the end, woke up feeling 'stupid', unable to string thoughts together, my whole head and scalp feeling bruised. Improved a bit over the evening and night, made it to work this morning but spent about half the day decidedly vacant, and still with a slightly stiff neck even now. Horrible stomach cramps and painful diarrhea this afternoon, too, just to top things off! Now 7pm Tuesday night, finally starting to feel much better, even hungry.
Is it coincidence I haven't had one of these since before my last drops? Could be, but I have a funny feeling it isn't...

[GrandmaD]

All sounds horribly familiar! Thinking of you! It is so good to have a reasuring and supportive partner, you are right. It makes it a lot easier. It is good you can rest and sleep.

I have head bumps and on my forehead. I will be interested to see if they go away after w/d.

[chiropteran]

Hey Grandma, nice to see you pop in Appreciate those good thoughts, I did think of you when I was recovering from that doozy of a migraine and the squeezy-pressure-bruisy head afterwards. Interesting that you have the weird little head bumps too. For ages I thought they were folliculitis, but the wax/wane patterns of them doesn't really fit.
The week got steadily better after my last post, and by the weekend I was feeling good enough to go ahead with my next drop - my first 3-weeker in fact! Today has been my third day on 16.2mgs.
Last night I woke at 3am with more horrible, painful diarrhea, sigh. Made it to work but spent the morning feeling quite cold and shaky, and had a NOISY belly for the whole day. Roiling and bubbling away, I could have put a mic down there and made a dubstep album. The good thing is that this time at least I haven't actually had the accompanying nausea (apart from at 3am in the throes). Haven't been specially hungry, but it's a relief not to feel sick this time around so far... touch wood.
Apart from feeling quite tired, which could be the broken sleep as much as anything, mentally I feel absolutely fine. Intending to keep on with the 3-week drops if all goes well, so my next one will be 13 Oct.