Just came back from my psychiatrist

[johnDinvegas]

Says who? he has 25 years of experience and 1001 research papers he can put on the table. I have got....welll ..you guys lol. (just playing devils advocate here to emphasizze that its hard). he doesnt deny WD but just says its max a month and often 2 weeks. he says he has seen a lot of people just drop from 20 mg to 0 in a week and have no probs. And i must admit i know those people also in my real life



he is wrong...he dosent have 1001 research papers..
ssris werent even in society when he "studied"
its very true some can get off paxil with almost 0 effects..
when you get stung by a bee it hurts..
some people it will kill them..
everybody reacts diffrently, sometimes dramatically to drugs..
although a large majority will react the same..

[aberdeen]

Originally Posted by johnDinvegas

Says who? he has 25 years of experience and 1001 research papers he can put on the table. I have got....welll ..you guys lol. (just playing devils advocate here to emphasizze that its hard). he doesnt deny WD but just says its max a month and often 2 weeks. he says he has seen a lot of people just drop from 20 mg to 0 in a week and have no probs. And i must admit i know those people also in my real life



he is wrong...he dosent have 1001 research papers..
ssris werent even in society when he "studied"
its very true some can get off paxil with almost 0 effects..
when you get stung by a bee it hurts..
some people it will kill them..
everybody reacts diffrently, sometimes dramatically to drugs..
although a large majority will react the same..

So true. Same with eating a peanut.

[babs]

Bilo, let me tell you about my first time quitting Paxil. I had been on 20mg for a few years, told my doctor I felt good and wanted to discontinue, and he said okay, you can just stop taking it. (This was in the late 90's when docs were even more ignorant than they are now) I trusted him, stopped taking it cold turkey without a thought, and had no expectations of having any problems at all. Within 24 hours of my last dose I was curled up on the bed in a fetal position, sobbing nonstop, wishing I was dead. It was the worst depression I have ever felt in my life, worse than anything I had ever felt before taking Paxil. It scared the crap out of me. I called the doctor and he said "oh yeah, some people have a little rebound depression; take another Paxil and you should be okay." I did, and within a day I felt 100% fine again, as if I had never quit. That incident was a real eye opener for me. I stayed on Paxil a few more years after that because I was too scared to quit.

My point is there is NO way that reaction was in my head; I had no anxiety at all about quitting and didn't expect any issues. And it was not a return of my "original condition" since I was not that way when I started Paxil. As awful as that was, it did serve a purpose since I realized I could never stop cold turkey and realized that these meds are very powerful and should be tapered.

[scotty]

If his assertions there wouldn't be sites like this all over the internet. Now, that's not saying that anxiety can play a huge role in the process, but withdrawal is very well documented in medical research. One who continues to deny it's existence, or subscribes to the "it lasts two weeks" hasn't read any current research.(the two week thing was what the drug companies were "selling" years ago)

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by babs

Bilo, let me tell you about my first time quitting Paxil. I had been on 20mg for a few years, told my doctor I felt good and wanted to discontinue, and he said okay, you can just stop taking it. (This was in the late 90's when docs were even more ignorant than they are now) I trusted him, stopped taking it cold turkey without a thought, and had no expectations of having any problems at all. Within 24 hours of my last dose I was curled up on the bed in a fetal position, sobbing nonstop, wishing I was dead. It was the worst depression I have ever felt in my life, worse than anything I had ever felt before taking Paxil. It scared the crap out of me. I called the doctor and he said "oh yeah, some people have a little rebound depression; take another Paxil and you should be okay." I did, and within a day I felt 100% fine again, as if I had never quit. That incident was a real eye opener for me. I stayed on Paxil a few more years after that because I was too scared to quit.

My point is there is NO way that reaction was in my head; I had no anxiety at all about quitting and didn't expect any issues. And it was not a return of my "original condition" since I was not that way when I started Paxil. As awful as that was, it did serve a purpose since I realized I could never stop cold turkey and realized that these meds are very powerful and should be tapered.

Well even a doctor wouldnt recommend a cold turkey stop. You were lucky,..it is so dangerous

Originally Posted by scotty

If his assertions there wouldn't be sites like this all over the internet. Now, that's not saying that anxiety can play a huge role in the process, but withdrawal is very well documented in medical research. One who continues to deny it's existence, or subscribes to the "it lasts two weeks" hasn't read any current research.(the two week thing was what the drug companies were "selling" years ago)

There are sites all over but that only proves that there are a lot of people who have problems after they stop with medication. It can be explained as lots of ppl have WD just as easily as lots of people having there normal anxiety back. (again;..being devils advocate here,..i feel differently personally). Also all the members combined of all the fora is still only 0,01 % of the total users of paxil
Are there any good decent research on WD on this forum scotty? Any links?

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by aberdeen

So true. Same with eating a peanut.

Well thats a bad argument. How many people have a bad reaction to a peanut or a bee sting? 0,001 % perhaps? Is that the same percentage that has WD on paxil?


I know i am stubborn and deliberatly argueing the arguments you guys give. But you dont have to convince me paxil gives a bad WD...i was in a hospital cause of it and am still a zombie 6 months later. Only thing i am saying is that every argument you guys can give me (or that i can give the shrink),...i can counter it with 3 decent arguments. And that sucks. Thats why i would like to see some research,..so i can slap him with it

[aberdeen]

Originally Posted by Bilo76

Well thats a bad argument. How many people have a bad reaction to a peanut or a bee sting? 0,001 % perhaps? Is that the same percentage that has WD on paxil?


I know i am stubborn and deliberatly argueing the arguments you guys give. But you dont have to convince me paxil gives a bad WD...i was in a hospital cause of it and am still a zombie 6 months later. Only thing i am saying is that every argument you guys can give me (or that i can give the shrink),...i can counter it with 3 decent arguments. And that sucks. Thats why i would like to see some research,..so i can slap him with it

I wouldn't bother, there doesn't seem to be much impressive evidence for what we are suffering. It's like banging your head on the wall trying to convince Dr's of this phenomenon we experience here. It's wayyyy too easy to dismiss us as mentally ill people who just can't get off meds. Maybe one day they or one of their loved ones will go through this and they'll understand better. Until then, I just stay away from the Dr's to be honest. I worry so much less... now that I've stopped hearing the professional's arguements. Their arguements are so persuasive I almost doubt myself, and I'm done with doubting myself It makes me feels worse. Even if they were right it still doesn't help me any, though I totally understand what you're saying.

[johnDinvegas]

Originally Posted by Bilo76

Well thats a bad argument. How many people have a bad reaction to a peanut or a bee sting? 0,001 % perhaps? Is that the same percentage that has WD on paxil?


I know i am stubborn and deliberatly argueing the arguments you guys give. But you dont have to convince me paxil gives a bad WD...i was in a hospital cause of it and am still a zombie 6 months later. Only thing i am saying is that every argument you guys can give me (or that i can give the shrink),...i can counter it with 3 decent arguments. And that sucks. Thats why i would like to see some research,..so i can slap him with it

maybe 1% of the population has superbad withdrawal from paxil..

you and i and alot of the folks here are in the 1%

DEAL with it, and quit trying to prove it to someone who wont believe it!!!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Bilo76

I know i am stubborn and deliberatly argueing the arguments you guys give. But you dont have to convince me paxil gives a bad WD...i was in a hospital cause of it and am still a zombie 6 months later. Only thing i am saying is that every argument you guys can give me (or that i can give the shrink),...i can counter it with 3 decent arguments. And that sucks. Thats why i would like to see some research,..so i can slap him with it

And this helps you how? You aren't going to convince someone who has no intention of listening to a word you say. He has dismissed you, based on his interpretation of your symptoms.

[Wld]

Bilo, so this shrink, just curious....what does he think you should do?

[babs]

There is no research ... pharma companies have NO interest in conducting research on the subject of withdrawal, which might result in them losing customers. The evidence is anecdotal, and there is plenty. Most of us here have had to deal with doctors who did not validate us (as well as friends and family) and it is frustrating. Because of my reaction to cold turkey, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was withdrawal so at least I didn't doubt myself too much when I finally tapered off and had a lot of symptoms.

One thing I see here a lot is someone in withdrawal who is suffering from something that is NOT their previous condition. People who were prescribed for anxiety will have depression in withdrawal, which they never had before, and vice versa. I was prescribed for depression but also had a ton of anxiety in withdrawal, which I'd never had before. Or there are people who had NO mental issues at all before meds, but were prescribed for something physical like IBS. The fact that they then have these issues in withdrawal should be proof that withdrawal exists and it is not their "original condition" because they had none.

My doctor didn't believe me one bit and I had to just accept it, use her to keep the prescriptions coming while I needed them and then never go back.

[Backtopaxil]

So what if there are 1 trillion people that get off paxil easily? What matters is YOU. You are having a tough time. You dont need to prove anything to that doctor, he will say you are just a treatment anomaly, like some of us here.

If you feel you can go back to paxil, just ask him to switch you , try it for 8 weeks and see if it works. Usually they say if it works for you once , it will work for you again. For me is more like, yes it worked like it used to, but the side effects this time are beyond acceptable.

Now, if it works for you, then you can stabilize for a few months and withdraw or not later on. But is is a gamble.

[markca]

i could have written IMAC's reply myself ...totally same experience.
remember this: a person with an experience is never at the mercy of someone with an opinion.!!
and doctors are so so wrong its totally criminal..it seem to me that their oath of doing no harm haas been totally forgotton about in there rush to meet dispensing quotas to obtain their free stationary and overseas trip from the legalised drug dealers called pharmaceutical companies!..no human should be given these drugs.
i was never given this for depression ..but for pain in my hands and arms from overuse of a keyboard. but boy oh boy the horrorific suicidal depression ive gone through to get off is something off the scale of human sadness.
finally at approx17 months drug free i got a widening of the daily window of normality im now getting through the day at 18 months without spending hours a sobbing mess. Babs your were right! ..the number 18 is spot on with my experience.

[Bilo76]

Originally Posted by Wld

Bilo, so this shrink, just curious....what does he think you should do?

He thinks i should try paxil again and if that doesnt work a different AD. I almost slapped him when he suggested to try a small dose of antispychotics

[NoRx4me]

Only thing i am saying is that every argument you guys can give me (or that i can give the shrink),...i can counter it with 3 decent arguments. And that sucks. Thats why i would like to see some research,..so i can slap him with it

There IS some research and proof about the damage psychiatry and their medications do. You could read and find the research in: "Anatomy of an Epidemic" by Robert Whitaker and "Brain Disabeling Treatments in Psychiatry" by Dr. Peter Breggin.

If you want to shell out more money to your psychiatrist, give them to him as gifts. Or you could try to memorize the info and quote it and show him the sited research in your next appointment. It will only get you thrown out of his office (I'm guessing of course).

Your doctor is unslappable. You have to think about your relationship to him. You are the "mentally ill patient", he is "the educated expert". You are not going to teach him anything. Not because you don't know better but because in his eyes, its as if a five year old were telling him how to drive a car. Most psychiatrists have no respect for their patients. They in fact view you with contempt or pity... or maybe even hatred... if you try to tell them they are wrong or you have information they don't.

Ask those authors what the reception to their research findings have been when they try to speak at conventional psychiatric events. You could probably find that info on their websites.

[julieannboo]

Originally Posted by aberdeen

I wouldn't bother, there doesn't seem to be much impressive evidence for what we are suffering. It's like banging your head on the wall trying to convince Dr's of this phenomenon we experience here. It's wayyyy too easy to dismiss us as mentally ill people who just can't get off meds. Maybe one day they or one of their loved ones will go through this and they'll understand better. Until then, I just stay away from the Dr's to be honest. I worry so much less... now that I've stopped hearing the professional's arguements. Their arguements are so persuasive I almost doubt myself, and I'm done with doubting myself It makes me feels worse. Even if they were right it still doesn't help me any, though I totally understand what you're saying.

a great quote. someone was really rude to me yesterday and i got upset when they pretty much said that i should go onto another AD when i said that i wasnt interested in anything at the moment - this is down to withdrawal.
she went mad when i asked her why she thought i should go on another AD and what happens when that AD stops working?
I said how do you test for serotoin and chemical imbalance? she said i was talking rubbish and you can test for chemical imbalance.
she was very aggressive and left me in tears.

like you - it made me doubt myself for a moment. rubbish.
made me more determined to get off and stay off this junk.

[nielsz1972]

I also live in The Netherlands and I can say that my psychiatrist and GP(housedoctor) are saying exactly the same thing. I'm on luvox(fluvoxamine)

[bear78]

If you're not too scared, check out this video on youtube. It pretty much confirms what I've thought to be true for a while, that psychiatry is a huge scam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDlH9sV0lHU

[blossomandaut]

Next time you see him, tell him you are happy to consider the drugs as long as he reads 'Anatomy of An Epidemic.'
Then when you see him again he may not be so persuasive.
Lu

[blossomandaut]

This man is ignorant to the science and statistics behind mental health. It is that simple. He chooses to believe what he wants regardless of the plethora of valid scientific literature out there. He falls for the pharmaceutical industry's lies and is doing his patients a GREAT disservice in the long term.
Sure, many people improve on antidepressants, benzos etc but this improvement is short lived and comes at a great sacrifice: YOUR LONG TERM MENTAL AND PHYSICAL HEALTH.
Sure, take the pills if you have been given a year or two to live but if you value your furture then stay well away.
LU

[wanting2quit]

Your doctor is full of ****, and I am so sorry that you have to put up with it.

My husband has told me something that has really stuck with me. He said, "When you make it through this, and you will... just make sure you pay it back. Think of all of the people who are going through the same thing, and don't have the strength you do, family support, etc."

Because of this, I have seriously considered seeing what it would take to go back to school and getting my masters to become a therapist. I think the issue is that there aren't really many people like us in the medical/psychiatric field that have personally been through hell and back and can really understand.

[tjwessksu]

I was put on my zoloft for a health challenge, like many other people, and we have a hard time getting off. What does he have to say about people like us?