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Old 05-20-2012, 06:27 PM   #1
bflosenrab
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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feeling absoutely defeated.

Hi guys, I've been Paxil free since March 12. (I tapered, but not cold turkey). I'll try to remember to put my info in my signature after I make this post, so I don't have to explain myself every time I start a thread and sound redundant, sorry. I was put on the drug for moderate to severe social anxiety disorder and clinical depression in the summer of 1999 when I was 17. I started tapering last June. Compared to other horror stories I've read on here, I had would I would call a relatively good taper:

Mental issues - memory problems [3 months after the taper began], general annoyance at everyday things that used to not bother me before [waiting in a long line, waiting on someone to return a phone call or message, things like that]

Physical issues - in February I started to get severe nausea that lasted for 3 weeks. The first week, it came in waves all day long (I would feel bad in the morning, then OK, then the nausea would come back mid-afternoon, then fine, then I would be kept awake at night by the nausea again). I did not look forward to eating during this time. After that, I only had it in the morning. I was at such a low dose by then that I just stopped taking the drug.

Looking back, I am proud of what I have accomplished, and my therapist is too because she said it is well-documented that Paxil is a tough, tough drug to get off of, and she recognized that the drug wasn't doing much for me anymore. However, I do not think I prepared myself enough for the emotional turmoil this w/d was going to put me through. I think I tapered too fast at the end. I was thinking that fast tapering caused a lot of physical symptoms, but perhaps it causes emotional problems too, like a sort of mental "crash"? I am in the worst depression I have had in at least 3 years, and it's been going on for a little over a month. It started in late March, I would feel really down in the mornings and then I would be more of my old self for the rest of the day. But a month ago, it became a more all-day thing. When I am in the depression, it causes me to not want to do things that are "good" for my social anxiety, what I mean is that the depression makes it even more difficult (not that it's easy when I'm not depressed) to talk to people, to make phone calls, to socialize. So this leads to all this horrible self-talk: I'm the biggest loner ever, no guy would ever want to be with me, I hate myself, people don't want to hear how depressed I am, I'm awkward, I can't talk to people, I'm a burden to others, I suck at my job, I hate my job but I'm too chicken**** to find another one, I hate where I live, I just wish I could go back and live in my childhood home, I made a mistake messing with my antidepressants, therapy is not working, am I going to be this bored for the rest of my life, etc. etc. etc. etc.

It is just SO frightening. I keep telling myself it's the withdrawal, it's the withdrawal, it's the withdrawal, it's the withdrawal, it's the ****ing withdrawal....and then I beat myself up for not thinking of the possibility that I could get depressed again and regress on everything I've worked on, when I started the taper. I don't have much of an interest in a lot of things right now, like hobbies etc. There is just a storm cloud hanging over everything. I am not suicidal. I don't have much of a support system as I live alone. for what it's worth, I'm not religious or have a spiritual side because I turned away from all of it when a bunch of people close to me died 3 years ago. (that was the trigger of my last serious depressive episode). I know that you're supposed to tell someone if you're depressed, and I have told close friends and my mom, but I don't know what else I can tell them that I haven't shared already, I'm like a broken record. When I told my mother, she was concerned, but with her it always goes into "well I'm depressed a lot too." My sister told me pretty much the same thing. It seems to be the worst in the mornings, especially weekday mornings because I dread having to go to work and have to fight to keep everything inside.

Honestly, the only thing that's keeping me from just staying in bed all day and/or drinking is the fact that I have to get up and go to work because I have bills. I find that funny because I have a sarcastic and dark sense of humor...like that seems like the lamest motivating force ever. Not something more meaningful like "my family and friends care about me", "I have so much to offer the world", nope.......just money. It's like I'm doing the least amount of work possible just to exist and to keep my apartment. There's a lot of heartache going on here. And like I said, I had no idea that I would get blindsided by depression, because I was so worried about the possibility of having all these health problems. Stupid me. I really do not want to go back on any drugs because I agree with most of the people here that they are pretty much useless. I went through major depressions when I was still on the Paxil.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:27 PM   #2
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

You'll get through it! And hey nothing wrong with being motivated by money-no one wants to be homeless right? Look at it as the Survival Instinct, makes it sound more heroic. Is there any way that you tapered too quickly? I am still going through a phase of little interest in my hobbies, and zero passion for anything. It could be a LOT worse so I won't complain. It is the w/d you're right about that. If Paxil wasn't doing anything while you were on it then you've done the right thing by coming off. Give yourself time to heal.
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2 Timothy 1:7: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

2005-2010 Effexor XR 112.5mg-262.5mg for PPD
June-Dec 2010 poop-out. 3 month taper, tried 3 different ADs. Horrible time. It took 7 months for any stability.
Paxil taper:
Oct'11 to Nov '12 20mg-10mg
March'13 to Feb'14 9mg -4mg
Feb 7/14-4.0mg
April 1/14-3.6mg
April 29/14-3.2mg
June 2/14-2.9mg
July 4/14-2.6mg
Aug 9/14-2.3mg
Sept 13/14-2.1mg
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:41 PM   #3
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

All your thoughts have been the same as mine. You're doing the right thing by being in therapy and working on your social anxiety etc: it may feel like it doesn't work and/or is so hard to do because in wd EVERYTHING is magnified by 1000%. I too found my cbt work didn't work, my positive self talk didn't work, going out and doing things despite feeling like I was going to emotionally die, made me feel much worse at times...... This all went away once the despair depression lifted. You're only about 2 mnths post meds? That's so early in the game (sorry this sounds bad). I didn't feel better until 8 mnths pst. The despair and crushing depression was constant for me for well over about 2 mnths. Then it started to subside to a few days off and on and then to a few hours each day. Until I noticed I would go days without feeling it, to completely lifting. I can now work on my issues and my cbt WORKS, my positive thinking IS making a huge difference.
You're doing right by continually telling yourself its wd. Sounds like a broken record but there isn't much we can do but just LET this awful time pass. What worked best for me were my mantra's and just keeping distracted as much as humanly possible, even on the days nothing could distract me, then I just cried and cried until it was time for bed!!
Btw - I responded to your PM.
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- 1998-2002: Celexa 20mg
- 2002-2010: Paxil 20mg
- 2009 - 20-0 mg paxil in 5 mnths(with prozac)
- 2009 (Dec): reinstated after 4 mnths off (crash)
- 2009 Dec -2010 Nov: Paxil 20mg
- 2010 Nov: switched to Zoloft 50mg (Paxil poop)
- 2011 Mar: tapered Zoloft (5.5 mnths)
- March: 37.5mg for 2 weeks
- April: 25 mg for 2 weeks
- April: 12.5mg for 18 weeks
AD free since Sept 4th, 2011
- Feb - March 2012: Crashed
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:53 PM   #4
bflosenrab
 
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

thanks for the replies, I really appreciate them.

a silver lining........? this weekend, I noticed my pants were really drooping down in the rear. Upon further investigation I realized that I could tighten my belt by 2 notches. Yesterday at work, it became clearer to me that the belt wasn't helping matters in the back anymore. I had saved a lot of the clothes I had not been able to get into these past few years, because I knew my weight gain was not normal, and I have a huge walk-in closet in my apartment—so why not? This morning, I was able to get in all the jeans I had saved that were a size smaller. However I still can't fit into all the shirts & tops...the "girls" and my gut are still too big It's funny how the body decides where the weight is going to come on or off first, isn't it?
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:24 PM   #5
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

You're the oppsoite from me,lol. My girls always leave first and my butt lingers forever....
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2 Timothy 1:7: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

2005-2010 Effexor XR 112.5mg-262.5mg for PPD
June-Dec 2010 poop-out. 3 month taper, tried 3 different ADs. Horrible time. It took 7 months for any stability.
Paxil taper:
Oct'11 to Nov '12 20mg-10mg
March'13 to Feb'14 9mg -4mg
Feb 7/14-4.0mg
April 1/14-3.6mg
April 29/14-3.2mg
June 2/14-2.9mg
July 4/14-2.6mg
Aug 9/14-2.3mg
Sept 13/14-2.1mg
Oct 18/14-1.9mg
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:29 PM   #6
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

^my sympathies. I think my stomach is going to be the hardest to lose.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #7
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Not doing so well this weekend. I see my therapist on Tuesday. Not sure where to go from here. It's been 10 weeks and my patience is wearing thin. The craziest thing about this is that physically I am feeling fine and I don't have the horrible nausea I had at the end of the taper. I am sleeping (and not all day like a classic depression symptom) and eating. Crushing depression and self-doubt are all that I'm left with now. I feel like the biggest ******* for tapering too fast at the end. I was feeling great physically and emotionally and then BAM.

Sometimes, in order to cope or distract myself, I try to think of how my life might look if I didn't have any form of mental illness at all—no social phobia, and no depression—and I just can't come up with anything. Everything seems miserable.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:24 PM   #8
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bflosenrab View Post
I try to think of how my life might look if I didn't have any form of mental illness at all—no social phobia, and no depression—and I just can't come up with anything. Everything seems miserable.
Awwwww that's totally w/d talking. It's not true, don't believe it for a minute. When I'm having a bad spell I feel the same way, like life never was, and never could be, worthwhile. But that's the depression talking and it's a total illusion.
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2 Timothy 1:7: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

2005-2010 Effexor XR 112.5mg-262.5mg for PPD
June-Dec 2010 poop-out. 3 month taper, tried 3 different ADs. Horrible time. It took 7 months for any stability.
Paxil taper:
Oct'11 to Nov '12 20mg-10mg
March'13 to Feb'14 9mg -4mg
Feb 7/14-4.0mg
April 1/14-3.6mg
April 29/14-3.2mg
June 2/14-2.9mg
July 4/14-2.6mg
Aug 9/14-2.3mg
Sept 13/14-2.1mg
Oct 18/14-1.9mg
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:50 PM   #9
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

10 weeks is early or expect anything yet

I have a feeing you tapered too quickly....and 80mg of Paxil is crazy...that's almost toxic!!!
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:14 PM   #10
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen View Post
Awwwww that's totally w/d talking. It's not true, don't believe it for a minute. When I'm having a bad spell I feel the same way, like life never was, and never could be, worthwhile. But that's the depression talking and it's a total illusion.
I know, but it's just really hard to change my way of thinking when I'm way down in the gutter like this.
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:17 PM   #11
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxilgirl View Post
10 weeks is early or expect anything yet

I have a feeing you tapered too quickly....and 80mg of Paxil is crazy...that's almost toxic!!!
Yeah. I was on 80 for 5 of those 12 years. It was a vicious circle. For instance, 20mg outlived its usefulness, and my psychiatrist at the time would just keep bumping it up until I found myself at 80.
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:23 PM   #12
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bflosenrab View Post
I know, but it's just really hard to change my way of thinking when I'm way down in the gutter like this.
That is so common when recovering from withdrawal.

Don't forget that withdrawal problems don't normally stop with the last dose. There is still some healing going on, and given the high dose you were on, what you're experiencing is normal. A lot of body functions are affected by these meds, and it can take time for the body to rebalance them all.

My suggestion is don't beat yourself up trying to change your way of thinking while still recovering. Try to steer your mind and activities to things that are as pleasant and distracting from w/d as possible to keep your mind occupied.

Rebound of previous symptoms is normal post-paxil while still healing, and so is onset of depression and feeling moralized even if you weren't put on the med for depression (the latter was the case with me).

I'm very glad you said you aren't suicidal, but if that develops please seek help immediately. Keep reminding yourself that you're still in a healing process. Don't be surprised if other people don't understand what you're experiencing. I found the same thing, and so have so many other people.

Are there any things you find even slightly pleasant - watching light movies, listening to beautiful music, any activities that are not stressful - that help at all? Even for just a little while at a time. Just to get through this difficult time of healing.
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20 mg/day; yrs later 15 mg
3/30/06 - 20 mg
4/21/06 - 15 mg
4/27/06 - 10 mg
5/17/06 - 5 mg (none 5/20)
5/21-24/06 - 2.5 mg (5/22 - none)
5/25/06 - d/c’d paroxetine
Felt better than in years, then gradual WD symptoms
6/17/06 - Bolted awake in blind terror, started E-ticket ride to hell
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:35 PM   #13
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bflosenrab View Post
I know, but it's just really hard to change my way of thinking when I'm way down in the gutter like this.
I know. It's actually pretty much impossible...which is why it's so awful. Somewhere in there you know better but it just doesn't matter. Even if nothing else works, can you at least sleep away some of the healing time? I couldn't because my worst symptom was anxiety and I couldn't fall asleep for the trembling and racing mind...but when it's depression I can sleep.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bflosenrab View Post
Yeah. I was on 80 for 5 of those 12 years. It was a vicious circle. For instance, 20mg outlived its usefulness, and my psychiatrist at the time would just keep bumping it up until I found myself at 80.
That was me and Effexor, started at 75mg and ended up at 262.5mg in the last year. Ridiculous. If any of knew this could happen (ie a Dr told us) we may have avoided this agony.
__________________
2 Timothy 1:7: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

2005-2010 Effexor XR 112.5mg-262.5mg for PPD
June-Dec 2010 poop-out. 3 month taper, tried 3 different ADs. Horrible time. It took 7 months for any stability.
Paxil taper:
Oct'11 to Nov '12 20mg-10mg
March'13 to Feb'14 9mg -4mg
Feb 7/14-4.0mg
April 1/14-3.6mg
April 29/14-3.2mg
June 2/14-2.9mg
July 4/14-2.6mg
Aug 9/14-2.3mg
Sept 13/14-2.1mg
Oct 18/14-1.9mg
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:42 PM   #14
bflosenrab
 
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

hi again paxil pals. Well, I saw my therapist today. We both agreed that I am going through a major depression, and that I need to see a psychiatrist stat because I am just not stable. I know that this is an anti-meds site but everyone's got a breaking point, and I've reached mine. We also agreed that I tapered too fast off the Paxil, especially at the end. She believes that paxil is not a great drug. However, when I see the psychiatrist, I am going to be my own advocate and stand up for myself. And when the time is right, I will get back on the horse and taper off again CORRECTLY THIS TIME, whatever the new drug will be. Also, I know that I will not take any amounts as crazy as 80mg ever again.

On a bittersweet note, I am going to terminate with said therapist as soon as I can find someone else. This therapist is in the city I used to live in (the city I grew up in). I used to have sessions with her when I would come home to visit (and I came home frequently), and we would fill in the gaps with phone appointments. That worked for me for a long time, and because we were at a distance, it actually helped me to get things out that I had been keeping from her for a long time. We're talking 25-30 page "essays" that I would mail to her and we would discuss them at length. I am so glad I resolved those issues with this therapist, whom I felt safe with, BEFORE this episode. My circumstances have now changed. Things are toxic with my immediate family, so I am not planning on coming home as often. Also, because I am now ill, I need to be seen in person every week where I am now living. I am sad because I knew today was the last day I would ever see her, but I will accept it. She said some amazingly kind things to me that I will always take along with me in the back of my mind. Namely, that out of everyone in her entire career, I am the client who has been the most open about my feelings.

So...sorry guys, but I need to get back to the meds. I will continue to read these boards. Thanks for everyone's invaluable advice and personal experiences, from the bottom of my heart. I wish all of you nothing but the best, and I look forward to the day when we are entirely free from all of this torment, and all of these drugs.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:51 PM   #15
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

I wish you all the best, I hope this works for you and you start to feel better soon. It's no life dragging yourself around in a depression, it's the worst thing there is I think. You probably made a smart decision, you were on so much Paxil, your suffering may have become worse and dragged on for ages.
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2 Timothy 1:7: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

2005-2010 Effexor XR 112.5mg-262.5mg for PPD
June-Dec 2010 poop-out. 3 month taper, tried 3 different ADs. Horrible time. It took 7 months for any stability.
Paxil taper:
Oct'11 to Nov '12 20mg-10mg
March'13 to Feb'14 9mg -4mg
Feb 7/14-4.0mg
April 1/14-3.6mg
April 29/14-3.2mg
June 2/14-2.9mg
July 4/14-2.6mg
Aug 9/14-2.3mg
Sept 13/14-2.1mg
Oct 18/14-1.9mg
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:57 PM   #16
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen View Post
I wish you all the best, I hope this works for you and you start to feel better soon. It's no life dragging yourself around in a depression, it's the worst thing there is I think. You probably made a smart decision, you were on so much Paxil, your suffering may have become worse and dragged on for ages.
thank you so much. I am almost 31 and have a lot of living to do, I don't want to spend my life this way. Therapist did tell me that once someone has a depressive episode, there is always the likelihood of it returning...meds or no meds. I figure that I've been in 5 since childhood. I'm still trying to process everything. It was a really emotional session.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:08 PM   #17
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

I am suprised that you were able to work after a quick taper from 80 mg. Three things i was wondering about:
- what was the original reason/problem you started with paxil in 1999¿
- were depression and anger the only mental wd symptom? I am surprised you didnt have depersonalisation, derealisation, panic, weird thoughts etc etc
- what was the reason you wanted to start the taper?

Thx, hope everything works out. Best of luck
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2011 Oct 16th: Cold turkey stop Paxil cause of poopout and switch to lexapro 15 mg. Hell started. Tapered lexapro. Tapered oxazepam. Med-free for 16 months. Now on Anafranil (clomipramine)


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Old 05-29-2012, 04:14 PM   #18
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilo76 View Post
- what was the original reason/problem you started with paxil in 1999¿
severe social anxiety disorder and depression.

Quote:
were depression and anger the only mental wd symptom? I am surprised you didnt have depersonalisation, derealisation, panic, weird thoughts etc etc
it was those two things, and I guess I would say a more anxious state as well. I have never had depersonalisation or derealisation, from what I gather those are more "psychotic" feelings? Basically, all of my mental w/d symptoms are all of my old demons intensified, nothing new. I hope that makes sense.

Quote:
what was the reason you wanted to start the taper?
I was blowing up like a balloon and it affected my self-esteem. I was hungry all the time, and didn't feel too many "high" high's or "low" low's (got my wish there). Also, in general, I just didn't feel as shy anymore.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:48 PM   #19
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

I am so surpised that you didnt have any other mental symptoms. But good for you. But how did you know it was wd and not just your old problem if you didnt have any other symptoms?

I am curious if paxil will work again on you. I am told it often doesnt worka second time. Off course i dont wanna scare you, dont even know if its true. So you are a good experiment hahaha, so please keep us up to date

I had a laugh at your comment `got my wish there`. It reminds me of something someone once told me. He said `bilo, when i was a kid i dreamed of one day being a superhero. During the day i would be an anonymous nerd and at night i would be this amazing superman. Well,....i guess i at least succeeded halve`
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14 years on Paxil 20 mg cause of a bad anxiety disorder (social anxiety, agoraphobia)
2011 Oct 16th: Cold turkey stop Paxil cause of poopout and switch to lexapro 15 mg. Hell started. Tapered lexapro. Tapered oxazepam. Med-free for 16 months. Now on Anafranil (clomipramine)


"....We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. It can not command, only serve..."
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:53 PM   #20
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

I'm Like a mOnth farther than u w the coming off ads all together and I'm doing much better..hope thats u soon too..just posted in my journal how I'm still anxious n feel like an awkward teenager alot of times still too but there is also more of the real me showing more everyday too!!! Chin up, don't give up....Things DO get better...I'm super demented n always have been, getting more of my sick wit back is something I am loving!!!! Plus I'm learning its ok to be me n ppl still like me for the most part n f the ones who dont...lol...wishing u all the best!!!
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:26 PM   #21
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilo76 View Post
I am so surpised that you didnt have any other mental symptoms. But good for you. But how did you know it was wd and not just your old problem if you didnt have any other symptoms?
The timing is just too good for it to be a coincidence. 2 weeks after I took the last dose, the onset happened. I was feeling horribly depressed for a few hours each morning, then I would be fine. A few weeks passed by, and then it lasted for several more hours. Then we come to last Friday, and it didn't lift at all...and my weekend in hell began.

Quote:
I had a laugh at your comment `got my wish there`. It reminds me of something someone once told me. He said `bilo, when i was a kid i dreamed of one day being a superhero. During the day i would be an anonymous nerd and at night i would be this amazing superman. Well,....i guess i at least succeeded halve`
I'm glad I could give someone a laugh.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:46 PM   #22
aberdeen
 
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

I agree it sounds like w/d. I hope you didn't misunderstand me when I said your suffering could get worse or drag on, I didn't mean your own depressive symptoms you had before meds...because that might never happen again who knows? I was referring specifically to your w/d symptoms, the intense depression that can come from w/d itself. Anyway, I hope yo ufeel better soon! You can always try coming off super slow one day down the road now that you know how to do it. Let us know how you feel!
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:15 AM   #23
lmac
 
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

You gotta do what's best for you and only you know what's best.
Although, I don't like what your doctor said about once having a depressive episode then likely to recocur again. Well, I never had depression in my life, even on the meds for 13 yrs but got MAJOR episodes (totally crushing depression with suicide ideation) during wd. I sure as heck hope this doesn't mean I'm suseptable now to more episodes because pandora's box has been opened. Depression in wd is totally chemical and different that even I noticed its chemical and have never suffered depression. This better not return for me just because I've felt it during wd. Sometimes I think doctors say these things just so they can keep their jobs!!
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- 2011 Mar: tapered Zoloft (5.5 mnths)
- March: 37.5mg for 2 weeks
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:25 AM   #24
aberdeen
 
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

I don't like when Dr's say that either. Lmac, I think they mean situational depression, and it probably has to do with how people respond to stress. Some people are sensitive and respond with depression under stress, so it makes sense that something like could re-occur several times in life (and I think therapy would help a lot in that scenario).
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2 Timothy 1:7: "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

2005-2010 Effexor XR 112.5mg-262.5mg for PPD
June-Dec 2010 poop-out. 3 month taper, tried 3 different ADs. Horrible time. It took 7 months for any stability.
Paxil taper:
Oct'11 to Nov '12 20mg-10mg
March'13 to Feb'14 9mg -4mg
Feb 7/14-4.0mg
April 1/14-3.6mg
April 29/14-3.2mg
June 2/14-2.9mg
July 4/14-2.6mg
Aug 9/14-2.3mg
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Old 05-30-2012, 09:30 AM   #25
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Re: feeling absoutely defeated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen View Post
I agree it sounds like w/d. I hope you didn't misunderstand me when I said your suffering could get worse or drag on, I didn't mean your own depressive symptoms you had before meds...because that might never happen again who knows? I was referring specifically to your w/d symptoms, the intense depression that can come from w/d itself. Anyway, I hope yo ufeel better soon! You can always try coming off super slow one day down the road now that you know how to do it. Let us know how you feel!
no, I didn't misunderstand anything you have said so far. I thank you for continuing to respond in my thread.
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