Some GOOD tapering news

[Abby]

As I come out of the fog of too-fast tapering late last year & settle back into myself...I am increasingly noticing how FOCUSED I am. Can concentrate again, like I haven't been able to for as long as I can remember. Don't know whether it's getting some of the paxil out of my system or just being in a better place all round..but it's quite marked, particularly with work.

[jeanc]

Hi Abby: I'm new to this site and found your post very interesting. I'm withdrawing also, and have probably done it too quickly - staying a week on a dose before dropping, instead of the month that I've just learned about.
I'm curious - you say you're FOCUSED, and that is great after being in the fog - which I was in a few hours ago, - I have a question - what did you do? Get through the withdrawal, go back to taking more Paxil, - it sounds as if you're still on it. Can you please explain what you did? Thank you very much, jeanc.

[davedood]

Yeah, that fog was (and can still be) pretty thick. Mine was lifting this week, and I've accomplished more in the past few days than in the past few months combined. It's frightening to realize how very unproductive I've been while on Paxil.
What could I have managed to get done if my shrink had taken me off after say, six-or-8 months, instead of my own decision to come off after three years?
This is the best feeling in the world. If I ever start to have anxiety or feel depressed again, you can bet I'll be investingation all the alternatives to the chemical fixes brought to us by big pharmaceutical companies.

[jeanc]

Thanks Davedood - gosh I hope I got your name right - I'm not wonderful at posting and manoevering around on these sites - so I hope I don't in any way sound rude,

I really did appreciate your post - yes, very similar experiences.

This fog - well, it's an extremely physical and fuzzy feeling - or was; I don't have that today, but my mind won't kick into gear. I was awake all night until about 7.00am or so, and this sleeping pattern has been an issue with me also - I break this pattern, but my body want to return to being awake all night and alseep all day ...... on being productive, unproductive - before I thought of cutting back or coming off Paxil, even - I have been just sitting around since about last August - it's now January - and I started coming down off Paxil in, I believe, November.

I was a good writer, and used to communicate very well, and now I'm afraid that I may be sounding incoherent - I'll go back and read a line, and be shocked at the disorder of it all.

I think I'd better stop right now; I'm considering going back to take 10mg Paxil for another month, and then gradually shaving down the dose - I mean shaving down the dose by shaving down the pills - or by taking the advice of the website link to - benzo.org.uk - this might help you also, a Dr. David Healy of Wales, UK has written some very helpful advice on Paxil and other psychopharmaceuticals, but he is so very aware of the downsides - he suggests converting the Paxil dosage to the appropriate Prozac dosage in liquid form, and coming down that way.
Thanks so much again - I'm not feeling panicky, but am aware that is a feeling that is within me behind a wall of something - I need to be able to feel these feelings in order to do something about them .....

thank you again, and thanks again for this life- and sanity-saving site.
jeanc

[davedood]

Originally Posted by jeanc

I was a good writer, and used to communicate very well, and now I'm afraid that I may be sounding incoherent - I'll go back and read a line, and be shocked at the disorder of it all.

That's one that STILL gets me! I use e-mail all day long, and I'm a graphic designer...sometimes I look back at what I've just typed and wondered how and when I became a moron. Somtimes functions within the software I use re completely lost in my head, even though I usually do them without having to think. I stare at the keyboard wondering what, exactly, am I supposed to do with THIS contraption.
THen everything kicks back in and my brain starts processing normally.
The worst is when it happens in the middle of a conversation. My co-workers get a kick out of it, placing bets on how long it'll take for me to remember what the heck I was talking about.
All in good fun, but at that moment I want to wring my brain.
Take care!

[jeanc]

Dave, thank heaven for your last line - "All in good fun ........." - because I have no such support system.

And if having the right people around can go so far as to make it "good fun ......" then I'll take that concept and sweep away the fear with it.

I can well relate to the difficulties that this must pose for you. I worked for several years in publishing, and very closely with the Art Director, - although I was more involved with editing and the written word.

Then I went back to school, and on to make a living as an RN, so am very tuned in to what patients are saying. I worked in Oncology and then as a Hospice nurse and those fields are really tuned in to working with life and death issues.

How long has this "fog" been going on? I am now in my late 60's, and started to taper off last November after several years on 40-50 mg Paxil. My mind has maybe started to go into "aging" mode, although maybe that's a Paxil induced memory loss. I know that we are all different, but it would be helpful for me to know what your dosage was, and how long you took to wean yourself from Paxil.

I am supposed right now, to be closing on selling a house, but I don't think I dare drive to get myself there - a 2 hour drive. And I just stand and stare, so how am I going to get that place cleaned up? Try to force myself? Maybe that's the answer, but last week I forced myself to drive and to go out, and spent the next 5 days in the hospital, not knowing what hit me - violent headaches and internal bleeding. Not all Paxil I'm sure, but nevertheless very frightening.

jeanc

[davedood]

I was on 37.5mg/daily for three years.
The foggy-brain thing started the day after I started weaning off, which was December 15th, 2004.
Right now I'm at about half of my dose, which is farther along than I thought I'd be at this point. Things got better for me pretty suddenly last week.
I feel less like my head is inside a pillowcase all day, but still, I'm constantly forgetting what I'm talking about. Mid-sentence. Usually in a group of people. They all just look at me, squinting as I try to get my thought across...as if by making squinty-faces they can help me out...who knows, maybe it does help, relieves the stress because they know I'm a bit out-of-it.
I was even seeing things for a couple weeks...a man running alongside my car as I drove home from work...at 65 miles-per-hour. Not likely to be real, but still un-nerving!
The only way I can get through it is knowing that it's not me, it's everything trying to fix itself in my brain. Re-routing and re-connecting. I can only look at it with a sense of humor...humor's the only thing (other than music) that grounds me lately. Other than my dogs! I also think it's best not to doubt yourself as it happens. It gave me confidence knowing that Paxil was fighting me trying to stay in control on a daily basis. I look at it as a war, and one that I'm guaranteed to win. I just had to DECIDE to win for once in my life.

[jeanc]

It takes a little time, sometimes,
to get the Titanic turned back around...

Dave, I can't get this clip out of my mind, and I'm seeing a blue-tinged underwater scene, the barnacle covered Titanic sitting on the ocean floor with a couple of fish swimming about, and some bubbles rising from somewhere - but maybe I drifted off and missed something......... what I'm saying is, I thought it was still sitting there; and I'm also saying that I have no intentions of doing that.

Like you, I'm going to somehow come out at the other end of this tunnel.

Seeing somebody running alongside your car, driving at 65 mph - and if Paxil can do that to your mind - what the hell is it doing on the market? (Rhetorical question here.)

I have had such things happen in my vivid dreams, but knowing that so many people are out there, having such experiences, ......... it makes me want to march into GSK, with an army of us, and insist that the CEO and the CFO, and plenty of others start taking Paxil, and then when they want to stop it, say, "Fine. No problem. No side effects. It's your drug. You know all this. Stop taking it - do whatever you want." and then see what happens.

I think I'm turning into a witch/***** or something -

jeanc

[davedood]

YOU'RE RIGHT!
It's from a song, but I guess it's not really what I want tosay, 'casue the Titanic, indeed, didn't turn around, did it?
I'll find a better one, I totally agree.

[Cyndee]

Hi--I was on 40 mg for years, then 20 mg for 2 years, then 15 for a month, then 10 and 5, each for 2 weeks. During the 10 mg, I also went off wellbutrin. It was all pretty awful, but lucky for me, I could stop teaching and just BE with all of the physical pain, mood swings, headaches, terrible flu symptoms, etc...as of yesterday I'm 7 weeks paxil free--still mood swings and anxiety, but I know that they're temporary. Keep fighting the good fight, oh warriors of health and wellbeing!

[jeanc]

Oh Dave !!

I didn't know it was from a SONG !!!

No - leave it - a song is an artform. Oh, alright then - but it must be meaningful for you. That must be the criteria.

Who am I to say anything sometimes? During and after Paxil.

[jeanc]

Originally Posted by davedood

YOU'RE RIGHT!
It's from a song, but I guess it's not really what I want to say, 'casue the Titanic, indeed, didn't turn around, did it?

Well, so much for the inconsistencies of the mind on Paxil - MINE, that is. But having noticed that, it's something that I have found that, for myself, I want to work at - being more consistent.

Davedood, now I remember; it was my memory of the Titanic NOT turning around that made me question this. Of course I was prepared to hear that I had "missed" seeing or hearing about the Titanic's being raised.

But now I know that it's still sitting on the ocean floor, I agree with you - this is not how you would want to see yourself; it's not moving on. And you do know now that you CAN move on; In fact, you said yourself, that you ARE moving on, taking it day by day, getting on with life as best you can,
so this wording doesn't represent you or your goals, and therefore doesn't represent who you are now.

I read another post on this site, about being normal, or having life be the way it used to be, ...... or both. And the writer said that life has such a changing dynamic to it, that it is never the same from one second to the next, and that as for "NORMAL" - there really is no such thing -

I can't remember it exactly, but what I got from this was that "NORMAL" is the way things are now, in this time and place, and that change and moving forward are not going to make NORMAL become ABNORMAL. I know these aren't the exact words, but the writer emphasised the fact that "change" is what is happening here, and that experiences in life do change us. We learn from them, and can grow and become stronger from them.

[jeanc]

Originally Posted by Cyndee

Hi--I was on 40 mg for years, then 20 mg for 2 years, then 15 for a month, then 10 and 5, each for 2 weeks. During the 10 mg, I also went off wellbutrin. It was all pretty awful, but lucky for me, I could stop teaching and just BE with all of the physical pain, mood swings, headaches, terrible flu symptoms, etc...as of yesterday I'm 7 weeks paxil free--still mood swings and anxiety, but I know that they're temporary. Keep fighting the good fight, oh warriors of health and wellbeing!

Hi Cyndee: I think you're the first person that I've known to be on 40mg Paxil on this site; Davedood was close, on 37.5mg, and I did read some posts from people on 10mg, having quite the battle getting off it.

To read that 10mg was a problem was, for me, very frightening. But I do know that it's all relative, and on an individual basis. I was on 40mg for several years also; during part of this time, I really didn't want to be on it any more, and was successful in getting myself off it - without any of the problems that I'm having this time around.

From what I'm learning, it may have been better for you and me both to have remained on the 10mg for a month, and then the 5mg for a month, but who knows? You are where you are now, and I'm where I am now - and I couldn't even contemplate being on these lower doses for so long, once I had made up my mind.

This seems to be a common thread running through this site, and so is the feeling that once off it, regardless of the suffering, nobody wants to even see the stuff again; I feel exactly this way myself, and although about 15 hours ago I was seriously considering going back on 5mg. and posted a message to that effect; and though even later I considered going back on 10mg. - I didn't. I got through the day without it. I'm only two or three days off of Paxil, from 10mg to zilch. Probably not a good idea, but in this moment am feeling OK.

How long this will last is impossible to know, but I don't and won't dwell on this thought or fear - I'm just pushing on as best I can. Like you, I'm not working either at this point, and that's good, because I can't even drive.

I don't feel I could concentrate safely to do so, and my arm was damaged in the hospital and is very swollen; I should probably get it checked, as I believe it is a venous blood leak from my IV, or worse. But I can't bring myself to get taken to a doctor again. What would happen? Hospital stay again? I couldn't deal with that.

My daughter was with me in the doctor's office a few years ago, when he said that I should not have gone off Paxil, that I needed it, must continue taking it, and must go back on it again - 40mg per day.

This damaged my relationship with my daughter who prefers to believe what authority figures say - why I can't imagine, because I didn't raise her this way, since I'm not so easily convinced; but she probably doesn't want to be like me, and go through life questioning and doubting so many things.

She has a hard time having me for a mother - a nuisance of a nut who raises the most "pain in the neck" questions about any- and everything. But I grew up in a time and place so very different, when NOT questioning was dangerous.

She was raised in a safe America, never a question about meals being there; the house being there; the school being there. For her, as for everybody she knew, everything, thank heaven was always there.

[scotty]

Jean, my son was on Paxil CR 50mg for a year. Dealing with families perceptions can be difficult. When Ryan was going through withdrawal I got alot of "You need to kick him in the butt" advice. It was only after reading what others had experienced that I started trusting my gut on how to deal with it. Those same family members have a whole new opinion about paxil now and are Ryan's biggest supporters.Trust your gut!!

[jeanc]

Originally Posted by scotty

Jean, my son was on Paxil CR 50mg for a year. Dealing with families perceptions can be difficult. When Ryan was going through withdrawal I got alot of "You need to kick him in the butt" advice. It was only after reading what others had experienced that I started trusting my gut on how to deal with it. Those same family members have a whole new opinion about paxil now and are Ryan's biggest supporters.Trust your gut!!

Hi - Thanks - should I call you Laurie, as in AKA or do you prefer Scotty? Yours is the most frightening story, to have someone so young not just on the Paxil, but on a whole 50mg of it. I've been tuning in lately to the developmental stages in the adolescent brain; you've probably read or seen on TV how the child's brain is a sensible thing, and so it the adult's brain - (speaking relatively, here !!) but during adolescence there appear to be some "gaps" created in the way that reasoning is processed.

Then I think of throwing Paxil into the process, and well, it's hair-raising to me. Is he OK now? This must have been traumatic for him to have to deal with during these teenage years, which are never a picnic, no matter who or where. And I'm familiar with this kind of family advice, and it's a good thing that although they didn't know, they didn't have the added problem of "not even wanting to know." I've encountered that philosophy also, and it's a whole different entity. So I'm glad that they had an open-minded approach.

Like you, it's the knowledge that makes it possible to trust one's gut, and thanks to this site - there's plenty of information available. Pity that it's not frequented by a zillion doctors who wonder what they're prescribing out there.

One of the posts that I've read wants us to remember that we had a reason for having Paxil prescribed in the first place, and to learn more about ourselves and to grow through the experience - with that and all the information about the nature of "the Paxil effect" this site has more to offer regarding this problem that I could ever have imagined possible.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this,

til later

jeanc

[scotty]

Laurie, Scotty doesn't matter Ryan is doing really well now! Pretty much back to his prepaxil emotional state(normal teenager!). The only long term problem he has is anxiety going to school. No problem in other settings with large groups, just school. I don't know if you've read his whole story, but he was also assaulted by two students in his school while on paxil. That I'm sure is a contributing factor. He is on Home instruction for now and as his psychologist says" When he's ready, he'll go back. It's got to be his decision". I really feel that his concentration is still a bit off and sitting in a classroom gets overwhelming. So for now he's home, and doing wonderful.He's meeting all the requirements for graduation and most important he's HAPPY again! He's out with friends, taking his drivers test in a few weeks, shopping for a car. Very normal stuff!

[Abby]

Originally Posted by jeanc

...have probably done it too quickly - staying a week on a dose before dropping, instead of the month that I've just learned about.

Definitely you need to stay at each dose longer..I did that one week thing, and up to a point it was fine, but it was like there was a cumulative lag and ultimately, my brain just couldn't keep up with the 'gap'.

I dropped 40-30-20 in the first few weeks...then 20-10 (too big a drop for me), 10 - 7.5 a week later, 7.5 to 5 after that (all in abt 6 weeks) and had to go back up 5 - 7.5 - 10...sat at 10 for a month and was just so not right..I whacked it up to 20 and stayed there.

This time around I just dropped from 20 - 7.5 3 days ago...am now, on teh evening of day 3, getting mild but definite symptoms. I will stay at each dose for a month, or more if I need to. It will take as long as it takes.

As for the fog, yes, withdrawal makes me 'foggy' but more to the point for me...is how much sharper I am OFF paxil after the withdrawal wears off at each drop..it's weird...but my concentration is better, I am clearer headed, I just think better and work better and am less scattered. It really had me quite wound up, which I think is the case for many people. Every time I drop, I feel a noticeable sense of calm.

[Abby]

Originally Posted by Cyndee

...as of yesterday I'm 7 weeks paxil free--still mood swings and anxiety, but I know that they're temporary. Keep fighting the good fight, oh warriors of health and wellbeing!

Oh, Cindy that's so great to hear! 7 weeks! I remember when you were going through things...and it was so very hard for you...and you were having trouble hanging onto your yoga and stuff and staying grounded...I use mindfulness and yoga and meditation and a lot of buddhist readings to stay sane, and I remember reading it and thinking 'oh God, maybe this ISN"T enough..'

It's made my night to hear how great you're doing

[Abby]

Originally Posted by Abby

This time around I just dropped from 20 - 7.5 3 days ago...

I meant 17.5

[Light]

Abby,

How long did it take for you to get the clear headed feeling after each decrease? Thanks.

[jeanc]

Originally Posted by scotty

Laurie, Scotty doesn't matter :

I don't know if you've read his whole story, but he was also assaulted by two students in his school while on paxil. That I'm sure is a contributing factor.

Hi Scotty: No. I looked around the site, and couldn't find his story. I'd like to though. Can you point me in the right direction, so I can read it please.

thank you
jeanc

[jeanc]

Originally Posted by Abby

I meant 17.5

Hi Abby: thanks for clarifying that. Sure makes a difference; I'll get back later,


jeanc

[scotty]

Here it is Jean! It's really long.But as I read it today, it shows me how far we've come and how much a role that paxilprogress and its members played in Ryan's recovery.

http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/...ead.php?t=5788

[Abby]

Originally Posted by Light

Abby,

How long did it take for you to get the clear headed feeling after each decrease? Thanks.

I tend to feel noticeably calmer and less 'wired' days after I drop, even if i feel like absolute total hell...I hadn't realised how would up the paxil had me...in terms of concentration and my brain feeling like it's working again..that took a good month after I ssettled back at 20mg (I had been on 40).

It was a VERY marked difference from the year that I had been on the 40mg. Felt like 'regaining' my ability to think clearly and quickly and lucidly. On Paxi l always felt a few IQ points lighter or something. I used to think 'God, I am supposed to be the really bright one, and somehow I've lost it', and then it got to the point where I just figured maybe I never was 'bright' or 'quick' at all. It really impacted my work, which is very 'thinking' work.

When I was 'depressed' it was like physically wading through custard..on the paxil it was like THINKING through custard.

[MizzT]

Originally Posted by Abby

On Paxi l always felt a few IQ points lighter or something. I used to think 'God, I am supposed to be the really bright one, and somehow I've lost it', and then it got to the point where I just figured maybe I never was 'bright' or 'quick' at all. It really impacted my work, which is very 'thinking' work.

Abby...you should read my first post!!! you just restated exactly what i was trying to say then. I really though i had done brain damage with the cold turkey withdrawal. I usually fairly bright and quick and periods of the withdrawal.....and even still when i get excessively stressed....i just go stupid. and then dysfunction like inability to speak, find words, etc.