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Old 04-23-2012, 03:51 PM   #1
IMISSME
 
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Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

So, I will be 1 year off paxil on 5/5/2012. I have been on Remeron at varying doses since late July 2011. I have tried to keep the lowest dose possible while still sleeping as axiety driven insomnia seems to be the most prevelant withdrawal symptom. I stabilized at 15mg about 45 days ago but then 21 days ago I decided to cut it to 7.5mg. Not a good idea. Even though I wasn't feeling great when I was stable looking back I know I was functioning better. So, my plan is to updose to maybe 11.25mg and see if I can get stable on that amount.

I need advice on how to taper these pills. They come in 7.5, 15, and 30mg tabs. I can cut them up but that would not be extremely accurate and I seem to be very sensitive to the doses. How does one go about grinding pills and weighing them. Do I then put them in capsules or just swallow the power?

My stubborness and impatience has caught up to me but I guess I have to do in the painfully slow way.

I have actually just recently contemplated reinstating paxil and doing a slow taper but I would then be stuck on two meds and I believe the severity of my symptoms are due to the Remeron withdrawal not the paxil which I had previously believed.
Thanks...
__________________
20 mg paxil 1998 for "night terrors"
2 attempts to quit mid 2000's
mid 2010, 10 mg after poopout
1 month 5 mg
5/5/2011 C/T'd
2 months physical symptoms minor bad thoughts then emotional hell, complete panic mid July
July 2011 started 15 mg Remeron for sleep
November 2013 at 1.0mg Remeron




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Old 04-23-2012, 04:19 PM   #2
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

By cuting them up and using a scale that is accurate to .001 grams you can be very exacting in your dose. I would start with the 15mg pills. The trick is to cut of a small piece, weigh the big one and then scrape it to remove little bits until you hit the right weight. This way you can make a pill the proper dose and then save the small pieces, weigh them and put them in capsuls so you don't wast anything. A little practice and it becomes really easy. I am currently doing this to my 40mg tablets to get a 23mg dose. Next week I will e taking off a little more to get a 22.3mg dose, it can be controlled that closely.

You've been off the paxil for a year now so I would stay away from it and see how controling the Remeron works.

Wishing you good luck with it.

(((((HUGS)))))
__________________
AKA Tom

1994 started 20mg Paxil,1999 30mg,2005 40mg
2010 pooped out
09/2011 CTed from 15oz vodka a night
09/2011 dropped to 36mg
06/2012 dropped to 19mg (past halfway point)
01/2013 dropped to 11.1mg
03/2013 dropped to 10.0mg
01/2014 dropped to 5.4mg
02/2014 dropped to 4.9mg
03/2014 dropped to 4.4mg

"Find a place inside where there is joy, and that joy will burn out the darkness." Joseph Campbell
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:18 PM   #3
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brassmonkey View Post
By cuting them up and using a scale that is accurate to .001 grams you can be very exacting in your dose. I would start with the 15mg pills. The trick is to cut of a small piece, weigh the big one and then scrape it to remove little bits until you hit the right weight. This way you can make a pill the proper dose and then save the small pieces, weigh them and put them in capsuls so you don't wast anything. A little practice and it becomes really easy. I am currently doing this to my 40mg tablets to get a 23mg dose. Next week I will e taking off a little more to get a 22.3mg dose, it can be controlled that closely.

You've been off the paxil for a year now so I would stay away from it and see how controling the Remeron works.

Wishing you good luck with it.

(((((HUGS)))))
Where do I get a scale? Are they all about the same? Where do I get capsules and do I really need the capsules? Also, if I start with 15mg tabs how do I determine the weight for the proper dosage? Although I am good with math my brain is not functioning very well these days.

I think the reason I have been so messed up with the Remeron doses is that I just hate putting this poison in my body every night. I can't believe I did it with Paxil for 13 years. I suppose it was because I seemed to be functioning well and it became a crutch. I have never experienced anxiety at this level before. In fact, although I have been described as an anxious person I never attributed negative attributes to it before.

But maybe placing some of my obssesive attributes to the cutting and weighing would be a positive thing. Do you use an razor blade to cut? I have heard of people shaving them but that seems like it would be difficult. Do you cut each pill each time you take it or do you cut them ahead of time? What about the coating on the pill. Doesn't that mess up the weight?

Where might I buy a scale? Can you recommend a model?

Thanks Tom...
__________________
20 mg paxil 1998 for "night terrors"
2 attempts to quit mid 2000's
mid 2010, 10 mg after poopout
1 month 5 mg
5/5/2011 C/T'd
2 months physical symptoms minor bad thoughts then emotional hell, complete panic mid July
July 2011 started 15 mg Remeron for sleep
November 2013 at 1.0mg Remeron




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Old 04-23-2012, 10:24 PM   #4
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Hi bud! I use a powder weighing scale for reloading ammunition. I think I paid around $25 for mine, and you can get them from amazon or ebay or anyplace. It came with a calibration weight and a little cup.

It's a little pita, but nothing compared to putting myself in an accidental withdrawal!

Good luck sir!
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:18 AM   #5
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

I got a Gimini II on Amazon for about $35 and the capsules were on the same page. The capsules are useful for using up the leftover bits and the tablets that break when you try to cut them, they are like $5/1000 so it is worth it to have them laying around.

The weight of one whole tablet = 15mg of drug.
WT X 0.95 = the weight of a shaved tablet with 5% less drug.
WT X 0.90 = the weight of a shaved tablet with 10% less drug.

Because the whole tablet weighs a lot more than the amount of drug it contains it is very easy to a specific weight of drug. For me, my 40mg paxil tablets weigh 500mg, making it aproximatly 12mg of tablet per 1mg of drug. With a sharp blade it is easy to remove only 1 or 2 mg of tablet at a time, so you can easily control down to the .25mg level.

I use an exacto knife to cut and scrape, and the coating is so thin it doesnt really count.

Good luck on your taper.
__________________
AKA Tom

1994 started 20mg Paxil,1999 30mg,2005 40mg
2010 pooped out
09/2011 CTed from 15oz vodka a night
09/2011 dropped to 36mg
06/2012 dropped to 19mg (past halfway point)
01/2013 dropped to 11.1mg
03/2013 dropped to 10.0mg
01/2014 dropped to 5.4mg
02/2014 dropped to 4.9mg
03/2014 dropped to 4.4mg

"Find a place inside where there is joy, and that joy will burn out the darkness." Joseph Campbell
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:56 AM   #6
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

a metallic nail file works like a charm. You cut your pieces with a pill cutter, then file off until you hit the desired weight.
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2nd Paxil Tapering
Off as of May 28th, 12


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"I've been shouting: it takes at LEAST a year " -- Ariella
"If I am going to suffer, at least I will be Paxil free" -- me!



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Old 04-24-2012, 10:17 PM   #7
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Make sure you weigh a whole bunch of tablets first, ie a whole box, and then get the AVERAGE weight per pill, especially if you're very dose sensitive. The weight varies, so this is the most accurate way to ascertain what '1mg' of active ingredient would weigh on average. So weigh say 50 tablets, adding up their weights, then divide this by 50 (the number of tablets) and you have the weight of 1 pill on average. If that's a 40mg pill, then divide that number by 40 to get the total weight of 1mg. That weight x whatever dosage you want is your magic number to shave/cut tablets to.
__________________
'83-90: Various tricyclics, anti-psychotics, tranqs.
'90-02: Prozac - poopout 2002
'02-10: Paroxetine 40, 60, 80mg.
ENOUGH!
Jun10-Feb11: 80-60mg, 5-12% 6wkly
Feb-Jul11: 60-50, 5% 6wkly
Jul11-Mar12: 50-20, 10% 6wkly
Hold at 20 for winter...
Aug-Dec12: 18-9.5, 10% 4wkly
Jan-Jun13: 8.6-3.7, 10% 4wkly
Jul-Dec13: 3.3-1.5, 10% 4wkly (1 bigger drop to 1.5)
23 Jan 2014 : 1mg
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:52 AM   #8
IMISSME
 
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brassmonkey View Post
I got a Gimini II on Amazon for about $35 and the capsules were on the same page. The capsules are useful for using up the leftover bits and the tablets that break when you try to cut them, they are like $5/1000 so it is worth it to have them laying around.

The weight of one whole tablet = 15mg of drug.
WT X 0.95 = the weight of a shaved tablet with 5% less drug.
WT X 0.90 = the weight of a shaved tablet with 10% less drug.

Because the whole tablet weighs a lot more than the amount of drug it contains it is very easy to a specific weight of drug. For me, my 40mg paxil tablets weigh 500mg, making it aproximatly 12mg of tablet per 1mg of drug. With a sharp blade it is easy to remove only 1 or 2 mg of tablet at a time, so you can easily control down to the .25mg level.

I use an exacto knife to cut and scrape, and the coating is so thin it doesnt really count.

Good luck on your taper.
Tom, I could not find this scale on Amazon. Nothing comes up called Gimini II.

Thanks...
__________________
20 mg paxil 1998 for "night terrors"
2 attempts to quit mid 2000's
mid 2010, 10 mg after poopout
1 month 5 mg
5/5/2011 C/T'd
2 months physical symptoms minor bad thoughts then emotional hell, complete panic mid July
July 2011 started 15 mg Remeron for sleep
November 2013 at 1.0mg Remeron




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Old 04-25-2012, 09:06 AM   #9
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMISSME View Post
Tom, I could not find this scale on Amazon. Nothing comes up called Gimini II.

Thanks...
never mind, I found it.
__________________
20 mg paxil 1998 for "night terrors"
2 attempts to quit mid 2000's
mid 2010, 10 mg after poopout
1 month 5 mg
5/5/2011 C/T'd
2 months physical symptoms minor bad thoughts then emotional hell, complete panic mid July
July 2011 started 15 mg Remeron for sleep
November 2013 at 1.0mg Remeron




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Old 04-25-2012, 06:29 PM   #10
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

You can do this Imissme. It's a nuisance having to weigh and cut pills but it's well worth the effort. I do a week's worth at a time and put them in a 7 day pill box that I got from the chemist. Good luck.
__________________

Aropax (Paxil) taper:
2009 23 Sept - 40mg; 12 Dec -30mg;
2010 Up and down - 25mg-30mg; 17 Dec-26mg
2011 25mg- 18 mg
2012 17mg -12.5mg
2013 27 Jan-12mg, 11 Mar-11.5mg, 2 May-11mg, 10 July-13mg, added 12.5mg Amitryptline 20 July; 5 Aug-titrated up to 75mg, stopped @13 Aug due to SS

Last dose of 13mg Aropax 15 Oct 2013. Switched to Citalopram 21 Oct in an attempt to stabilise.

There are things that are known, and things that are unknown; in between are doors - Anonymous
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:49 PM   #11
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
You can do this Imissme. It's a nuisance having to weigh and cut pills but it's well worth the effort. I do a week's worth at a time and put them in a 7 day pill box that I got from the chemist. Good luck.
Thanks Christine. I think that after all this time I have figured a few things out. Number one, 90% of my symptoms are all paxil withdrawal. Number 2, about 10% of my issues are Remeron related but that 10% is mostly due to me screwing with the dosages because I want off this stuff. I have determined that even though it doesn't hit me right away, I can't do big drops. I end up with severe anxiey induced insomnia and burning nerves. I had it happen 3 weeks after dropping 50% (from 15 to 7.5) and the crazy anxiety driven insomnia lasted one night and I knew what the problem was. Back in January it went on for a month until I finally broke down and saw the pdoc again who wanted me on 30 and I settled at 15 for another month. I guess it makes sense as I am very sensitive to just about any med these days and the Remeron is a nasty one.

I have also determined that the Remeron is really not helping at all other then to sleep. I had regular insomnia last night and that was after settling at a dose of 11.25. I think I can start there and work my way down. I ordered a scale and capsules. Cutting is just not precise and apparently it makes a big difference.

A month ago I had about a week window (so battle fatigued it's hard to determine being in a window until its gone). All I know is the brain fog lifted and I was able to function quite well at work. First time in many months I didn't have to suffer to get something accomplished. At first I attributed it to the increase in Remeron but now I just don't think that is the case. I have to go on the assumption that the goal is no meds and they aren't going to help. I will never know until I am completely off. Reducing from 11.25mg 10% every month or so I am not sure how long that will take.

Thanks for the encouragement.
__________________
20 mg paxil 1998 for "night terrors"
2 attempts to quit mid 2000's
mid 2010, 10 mg after poopout
1 month 5 mg
5/5/2011 C/T'd
2 months physical symptoms minor bad thoughts then emotional hell, complete panic mid July
July 2011 started 15 mg Remeron for sleep
November 2013 at 1.0mg Remeron




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Old 04-25-2012, 06:57 PM   #12
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Well, I just calulated it out and that's like 2 years to get off of this. I may just try 1mg drops every 4 weeks or so and see how that goes. I can't believe how painstaking this is. Wish I had know about it for the Paxil and spared myself all the chaos (still going on and quite rough).
__________________
20 mg paxil 1998 for "night terrors"
2 attempts to quit mid 2000's
mid 2010, 10 mg after poopout
1 month 5 mg
5/5/2011 C/T'd
2 months physical symptoms minor bad thoughts then emotional hell, complete panic mid July
July 2011 started 15 mg Remeron for sleep
November 2013 at 1.0mg Remeron




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Old 04-26-2012, 03:53 AM   #13
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

I know what you mean about the length of time it takes to get off Paxil. I've decided that it's probably going to take me years and I'm no longer bothered by it. Quality of life is more important. I also want to minimise the naturopathic support I've been getting because I'm not working at the moment and it's costing a fortune!

I think I can.... I think I can.... I will.... I know I will... I just don't know when......

LOL!!!
__________________

Aropax (Paxil) taper:
2009 23 Sept - 40mg; 12 Dec -30mg;
2010 Up and down - 25mg-30mg; 17 Dec-26mg
2011 25mg- 18 mg
2012 17mg -12.5mg
2013 27 Jan-12mg, 11 Mar-11.5mg, 2 May-11mg, 10 July-13mg, added 12.5mg Amitryptline 20 July; 5 Aug-titrated up to 75mg, stopped @13 Aug due to SS

Last dose of 13mg Aropax 15 Oct 2013. Switched to Citalopram 21 Oct in an attempt to stabilise.

There are things that are known, and things that are unknown; in between are doors - Anonymous
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:42 PM   #14
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

2 years isn't bad if you get the rest of your life back, and manage quality of life while you're tapering though. Trust me, I'm 2 years in and don't EVER regret doing it this slowly, not one little bit. I still have about a year to go, but the positive gains and the lack of really horrible withdrawal effects (like I got years ago trying a doctor's recommended rapid "taper") are more than worth it.

Patience, young Jedis!
__________________
'83-90: Various tricyclics, anti-psychotics, tranqs.
'90-02: Prozac - poopout 2002
'02-10: Paroxetine 40, 60, 80mg.
ENOUGH!
Jun10-Feb11: 80-60mg, 5-12% 6wkly
Feb-Jul11: 60-50, 5% 6wkly
Jul11-Mar12: 50-20, 10% 6wkly
Hold at 20 for winter...
Aug-Dec12: 18-9.5, 10% 4wkly
Jan-Jun13: 8.6-3.7, 10% 4wkly
Jul-Dec13: 3.3-1.5, 10% 4wkly (1 bigger drop to 1.5)
23 Jan 2014 : 1mg
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:31 PM   #15
IMISSME
 
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Re: Looks like I willing be joining the slow taper crowd...need advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiropteran View Post
2 years isn't bad if you get the rest of your life back, and manage quality of life while you're tapering though. Trust me, I'm 2 years in and don't EVER regret doing it this slowly, not one little bit. I still have about a year to go, but the positive gains and the lack of really horrible withdrawal effects (like I got years ago trying a doctor's recommended rapid "taper") are more than worth it.

Patience, young Jedis!
Well, one thing you have to understand. I am in full blown paxil withdrawal since quitting last May. I get no relief. The wean is for the Remeron which does nothing for the paxil issues other then letting me sleep. I can't get off of it now because I am physically dependent on it. So, I get to wean off that for a year or more but I am still dealing with the paxil withdrawal and there seems to be no end in sight with how it makes me feel. Just read IMAC or Miriza's post or evey Bilo's and that is exactly how I feel everyday.
__________________
20 mg paxil 1998 for "night terrors"
2 attempts to quit mid 2000's
mid 2010, 10 mg after poopout
1 month 5 mg
5/5/2011 C/T'd
2 months physical symptoms minor bad thoughts then emotional hell, complete panic mid July
July 2011 started 15 mg Remeron for sleep
November 2013 at 1.0mg Remeron




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